Subject: Re: My broken DataQ AD converter From: "tchannel" tchannel@.............. Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2007 13:29:46 -0600 Well Chris, You did it again! I hope your head doesn't get too = big.....But facts are facts. From way over there, in the UK?, you were = able to help me fix this silly AD board, here in Boise Idaho, USA....... I do believe you were correct at every turn.... 1 I do think this is an older 194 8 bit board, from your physical = description. 2 The resistor numbers on the surface mount components were 1003, and = 2003. Of course the two missing ones had no numbers. But there was a = pattern as the resistors were in a row, something like = 1003,2003,1003,2003,1003,2003,xxxx,2003, so I figured the xxxx was the = 1003, 100K 3 The other missing resistor was near others which had the 2003, so I = figured the xxxx would be a 200K, the way it is built I could not see = where these resistors were in the circuit. I soldered in the two = missing resistors, and it is now working!!!!!!! 4 I did go to AmaSeis .ini files but did not see any "Channel # listed" = so maybe it is always going to be Channel 1. and never Channel 2,3, or 4. 5 I do think you are correct about someone modifying the board to run = as a +5v and a -0, as these two missing resistors just did not fail and = fall off, they look like they were purposely popped off, small scratch = marks in their place. Again, Many Thanks, Ted ----- Original Message -----=20 From: ChrisAtUpw@.......... To: psn-l@................. Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 12:00 PM Subject: Re: My broken DataQ AD converter In a message dated 2007/03/31, tchannel@.............. writes: Hi All, Looking closely at the board I see two resistors which are = "Open" "cracked" Its a wonder it works at all, but some parts of it do work. Channel = 1, only puts out + voltage, just a small amount of - I think that account for the AmaSeis trace showing only the top part = of an earthquake. Hi Ted, The input resistors are two 200 K in series. The offset line is = 100 K to the centre point. If any of them are damaged, it should not be = difficult to replace them. Alternatively, could you unsolder the = resistors on CH4 and replace the ones on CH1? The resistor values are = printed on them eg 2003. I get about -0.59 V on the offset line and about 90 mV on the = input. I suspect that this is because the ADC is not in operating mode. = The offset line should be -5V for +/-10V input. Check the voltage on the = offset line while the channel is switched on? However Channel, 2,3,4 all seem to work showing both positive and = negative movement "In DataQ Software Only", in this software Channel 1, = only shows positive trace movement, and, no negative. You could get this with failed resistors. Is the range 5V or = 10V? I suspect that the ADC may have been 'modified' for a single = polarity 5V signal? Can the friend who gave it to you provide any = information?=20 When I connected my Sensor to Channel 2,3 or 4 Using DataQ, I was = thinking it would then work in AmaSeis, but it does not. It looks as if = AmaSeis will not read any Channel except Channel 1. Even though in DataQ = Channel 2,3,4 all seem to work fine. If I connect the sensor to Channel = 3, AmaSeis shows a trace, but the trace does not move in either = direction if I stimulate the sensor. This is true for Channel, 2,3,4. = Only Channel 1, moves the trace in AmaSeis. I think you can change the com port, in AmaSeis, but is there = anywhere you can or need to change for Channel selection? In DataQ I closed all the Channels except Ch. 3 and saved before = closing. So If I were just using DataQ software, I would be = operational. Amaseis normally uses CH1 only. However there are two setup = files Amaseis.ini and AS1.ini. It may be possible to set a different = channel by editing and then saving the file, but I am not sure. I know = that you get your different sample rates this way. If you use a Dataq = and Amaseis without editing the ini file, you just get 6 SPS. This information is taken from an old 8 bit DI-194 board, which = I suspect that you have. Regards, Chris Chapman
Well Chris, You did it again!  I = hope your=20 head doesn't get too big.....But facts are facts. From way over there, = in the=20 UK?, you were able to help me fix this silly AD board, here in Boise = Idaho,=20 USA.......
 
I do believe you were correct at every=20 turn....
 
1  I do think this is an older 194 = 8 bit=20 board, from your physical description.
2  The resistor numbers on the = surface mount=20 components were 1003, and 2003.  Of course the two missing ones had = no=20 numbers.  But there was a pattern as the resistors were in a row, = something=20 like 1003,2003,1003,2003,1003,2003,xxxx,2003, so I figured the xxxx was = the=20 1003, 100K
3  The other missing resistor was = near others=20 which had the 2003, so I figured the xxxx would be a 200K, the way it is = built I=20 could not see where these resistors were in the circuit.  I = soldered in the=20 two missing resistors, and it is now working!!!!!!!
 
4  I did go to AmaSeis .ini files = but did not=20 see any "Channel # listed"  so maybe it is always going to be = Channel=20 1.
and never Channel 2,3, or = 4.
5  I do think you are correct = about someone=20 modifying the board to run as a +5v and a -0, as these two missing = resistors=20 just did not fail and fall off, they look like they were purposely = popped off,=20 small scratch marks in their place.
 
Again, Many Thanks, Ted
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 ChrisAtUpw@.......
To: psn-l@..............
Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 = 12:00=20 PM
Subject: Re: My broken DataQ AD = converter

In a=20 message dated 2007/03/31, tchannel@..............=20 writes:

Hi All, Looking closely at the board I see two resistors = which=20 are "Open" "cracked"
Its a wonder it works at all, but some parts of it = do work.=20 Channel 1, only puts out + voltage, just a small amount of = -
I think that = account for the=20 AmaSeis trace showing only the top part of an = earthquake.

Hi=20 Ted,

       The input resistors = are two=20 200 K in series. The offset line is 100 K to the centre point. If any = of them=20 are damaged, it should not be difficult to replace them. = Alternatively, could=20 you  unsolder the resistors on CH4 and replace the ones on CH1? = The=20 resistor values are printed on them eg=20 2003.
       I get about -0.59 V on = the=20 offset line and about 90 mV on the input. I suspect that this is = because the=20 ADC is not in operating mode. The offset line should be -5V for +/-10V = input.=20 Check the voltage on the offset line while the channel is switched=20 on?

 However Channel, 2,3,4 all seem to work showing both = positive=20 and negative movement "In DataQ Software Only", in this software = Channel 1,=20 only shows positive trace movement, and, no negative.

       You=20 could get this with failed resistors. Is the range 5V or 10V? I = suspect that=20 the ADC may have been 'modified' for a single polarity 5V signal? Can = the=20 friend who gave it to you provide any information?

When I connected my Sensor to Channel 2,3 or 4 Using=20 DataQ,  I was thinking it would then work in AmaSeis, but it = does=20 not.  It looks as if AmaSeis will not read any Channel except = Channel=20 1. Even though in DataQ Channel 2,3,4 all seem to work fine.  = If I=20 connect the sensor to Channel 3,  AmaSeis shows a trace, but = the trace=20 does not move in either direction if I stimulate the sensor.  = This is=20 true for Channel, 2,3,4.  Only Channel 1, moves the trace in=20 AmaSeis.
I think you can change the com port, in AmaSeis, = but is there=20 anywhere you can or need to change for Channel = selection?
In DataQ I = closed all the=20 Channels except Ch. 3 and saved before closing.  So If I were = just=20 using DataQ software, I would be operational.

       Amaseis = normally uses=20 CH1 only. However there are two setup files Amaseis.ini and AS1.ini. = It may be=20 possible to set a different channel by editing and then saving the = file, but I=20 am not sure. I know that you get your different sample rates this way. = If you=20 use a Dataq and Amaseis without editing the ini file, you just get 6=20 SPS.

       This information is = taken=20 from an old 8 bit DI-194 board, which I suspect that you=20 have.

      =20 Regards,

       Chris = Chapman=20 Subject: Large earthquake near Solomon Islands From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2007 21:33:40 +0000 Hi all At 20:39 there was a Mw7.6 earthquake according to automatic data near Solomon Islands. But based on how the earthquake is appearing on plots around the world, I assume it is at least 0.5 magnitude bigger then automatic system assume. Regards. --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann http://www.jonfr.com http://www.simnet.is/jonfr500/earthquake/ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: My broken DataQ AD converter From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 14:38:28 -0700 Someone who has reworked a PWB (printed wiring board) will most always leave signs like scratch marks or noticibly different solder work. Resistors will be cut and left in place rather than unsoldering them because a PWB can only take so much heat before the foil starts to peal away. No sense in doing unnecessary soldering. You must look with a magnifying glass at the solder joints to make sure they are well wetted and no fine hairs of conductive materials are where they are not wanted. No resistor should ever be burnt or the board under them. You really must have a schematic because the job of tracing out one yourself can be next to impossible. In past years the manufacturers would almost always provide schematics but today since most US industry has gone overseas these forign places will refuse to let you get the schematic thill the equipment is old and obsolete. It is not practicle for the common man to work on surface mounted technology you need to work on the new boards is expensive and medical like tools require fine skills. If you like electronics as a hobby it is best to go to a university and become an engineer. Technologist or if all else fails a Technician. Without the proper tools throw the old one away and buy a new one. You will waste your life/monies in trivial pursuits. ----- Original Message ----- From: "tchannel" To: Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 12:29 Subject: Re: My broken DataQ AD converter Well Chris, You did it again! I hope your head doesn't get too big.....But facts are facts. From way over there, in the UK?, you were able to help me fix this silly AD board, here in Boise Idaho, USA....... I do believe you were correct at every turn.... 1 I do think this is an older 194 8 bit board, from your physical description. 2 The resistor numbers on the surface mount components were 1003, and 2003. Of course the two missing ones had no numbers. But there was a pattern as the resistors were in a row, something like 1003,2003,1003,2003,1003,2003,xxxx,2003, so I figured the xxxx was the 1003, 100K 3 The other missing resistor was near others which had the 2003, so I figured the xxxx would be a 200K, the way it is built I could not see where these resistors were in the circuit. I soldered in the two missing resistors, and it is now working!!!!!!! 4 I did go to AmaSeis .ini files but did not see any "Channel # listed" so maybe it is always going to be Channel 1. and never Channel 2,3, or 4. 5 I do think you are correct about someone modifying the board to run as a +5v and a -0, as these two missing resistors just did not fail and fall off, they look like they were purposely popped off, small scratch marks in their place. Again, Many Thanks, Ted ----- Original Message ----- From: ChrisAtUpw@....... To: psn-l@.............. Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 12:00 PM Subject: Re: My broken DataQ AD converter In a message dated 2007/03/31, tchannel@.............. writes: Hi All, Looking closely at the board I see two resistors which are "Open" "cracked" Its a wonder it works at all, but some parts of it do work. Channel 1, only puts out + voltage, just a small amount of - I think that account for the AmaSeis trace showing only the top part of an earthquake. Hi Ted, The input resistors are two 200 K in series. The offset line is 100 K to the centre point. If any of them are damaged, it should not be difficult to replace them. Alternatively, could you unsolder the resistors on CH4 and replace the ones on CH1? The resistor values are printed on them eg 2003. I get about -0.59 V on the offset line and about 90 mV on the input. I suspect that this is because the ADC is not in operating mode. The offset line should be -5V for +/-10V input. Check the voltage on the offset line while the channel is switched on? However Channel, 2,3,4 all seem to work showing both positive and negative movement "In DataQ Software Only", in this software Channel 1, only shows positive trace movement, and, no negative. You could get this with failed resistors. Is the range 5V or 10V? I suspect that the ADC may have been 'modified' for a single polarity 5V signal? Can the friend who gave it to you provide any information? When I connected my Sensor to Channel 2,3 or 4 Using DataQ, I was thinking it would then work in AmaSeis, but it does not. It looks as if AmaSeis will not read any Channel except Channel 1. Even though in DataQ Channel 2,3,4 all seem to work fine. If I connect the sensor to Channel 3, AmaSeis shows a trace, but the trace does not move in either direction if I stimulate the sensor. This is true for Channel, 2,3,4. Only Channel 1, moves the trace in AmaSeis. I think you can change the com port, in AmaSeis, but is there anywhere you can or need to change for Channel selection? In DataQ I closed all the Channels except Ch. 3 and saved before closing. So If I were just using DataQ software, I would be operational. Amaseis normally uses CH1 only. However there are two setup files Amaseis.ini and AS1.ini. It may be possible to set a different channel by editing and then saving the file, but I am not sure. I know that you get your different sample rates this way. If you use a Dataq and Amaseis without editing the ini file, you just get 6 SPS. This information is taken from an old 8 bit DI-194 board, which I suspect that you have. Regards, Chris Chapman __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Info on Volksmeter....? From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 14:50:59 -0700 I intend to call the company monday mst and see what they have to say. Since they post no prices I fear their attitude to be if you must ask you cant afford it. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 01:25 Subject: Re: Info on Volksmeter....? > In a message dated 2007/03/31, mckimzey@........... writes: > >> I remain very interested in the "volksmeter"...but there has been little >> talk about it...only the PDF sheet on Larry's site. I did a web search, and >> >> there seems now to be a bit more information...and nice pictures! It was >> found at http://www.rllinstruments.com/ >> >> Does anyone have any more information? > > HI Mike, > > What further information do you want? > > Regards, > > Chris Chapman > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: My broken DataQ AD converter From: "tchannel" tchannel@.............. Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 16:06:18 -0600 Geoffrey, Good advise, indeed.... Thanks, Ted ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoffrey" To: Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 3:38 PM Subject: Re: My broken DataQ AD converter > Someone who has reworked a PWB (printed wiring board) will most always > leave signs like scratch marks or noticibly different solder work. > Resistors will be cut and left in place rather than unsoldering them > because a PWB can only take so much heat before the foil starts > to peal away. No sense in doing unnecessary soldering. You must look > with a magnifying glass at the solder joints to make sure they are > well wetted and no fine hairs of conductive materials are where they > are not wanted. No resistor should ever be burnt or the board under them. > You really must have a schematic because the job of tracing out one > yourself > can be next to impossible. In past years the manufacturers would almost > always > provide schematics but today since most US industry has gone overseas > these forign places will refuse to let you get the schematic thill the > equipment > is old and obsolete. > It is not practicle for the common man to work on surface mounted > technology you > need to work on the new boards is expensive and medical like tools require > fine skills. > If you like electronics as a hobby it is best to go to a university and > become an engineer. > Technologist or if all else fails a Technician. > Without the proper tools throw the old one away and buy a new one. > You will waste your life/monies in trivial pursuits. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "tchannel" > To: > Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 12:29 > Subject: Re: My broken DataQ AD converter > > > Well Chris, You did it again! I hope your head doesn't get too > big.....But facts are facts. From way over there, in the UK?, you were > able to help me fix this silly AD board, here in Boise Idaho, USA....... > > I do believe you were correct at every turn.... > > 1 I do think this is an older 194 8 bit board, from your physical > description. > 2 The resistor numbers on the surface mount components were 1003, and > 2003. Of course the two missing ones had no numbers. But there was a > pattern as the resistors were in a row, something like > 1003,2003,1003,2003,1003,2003,xxxx,2003, so I figured the xxxx was the > 1003, 100K > 3 The other missing resistor was near others which had the 2003, so I > figured the xxxx would be a 200K, the way it is built I could not see > where these resistors were in the circuit. I soldered in the two missing > resistors, and it is now working!!!!!!! > > 4 I did go to AmaSeis .ini files but did not see any "Channel # listed" > so maybe it is always going to be Channel 1. > and never Channel 2,3, or 4. > 5 I do think you are correct about someone modifying the board to run as > a +5v and a -0, as these two missing resistors just did not fail and fall > off, they look like they were purposely popped off, small scratch marks in > their place. > > Again, Many Thanks, Ted > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: ChrisAtUpw@....... > To: psn-l@.............. > Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 12:00 PM > Subject: Re: My broken DataQ AD converter > > > In a message dated 2007/03/31, tchannel@.............. writes: > > > Hi All, Looking closely at the board I see two resistors which are > "Open" "cracked" > Its a wonder it works at all, but some parts of it do work. Channel 1, > only puts out + voltage, just a small amount of - > I think that account for the AmaSeis trace showing only the top part of > an earthquake. > > > Hi Ted, > > The input resistors are two 200 K in series. The offset line is > 100 K to the centre point. If any of them are damaged, it should not be > difficult to replace them. Alternatively, could you unsolder the > resistors on CH4 and replace the ones on CH1? The resistor values are > printed on them eg 2003. > I get about -0.59 V on the offset line and about 90 mV on the > input. I suspect that this is because the ADC is not in operating mode. > The offset line should be -5V for +/-10V input. Check the voltage on the > offset line while the channel is switched on? > > > However Channel, 2,3,4 all seem to work showing both positive and > negative movement "In DataQ Software Only", in this software Channel 1, > only shows positive trace movement, and, no negative. > > > You could get this with failed resistors. Is the range 5V or 10V? > I suspect that the ADC may have been 'modified' for a single polarity 5V > signal? Can the friend who gave it to you provide any information? > > > When I connected my Sensor to Channel 2,3 or 4 Using DataQ, I was > thinking it would then work in AmaSeis, but it does not. It looks as if > AmaSeis will not read any Channel except Channel 1. Even though in DataQ > Channel 2,3,4 all seem to work fine. If I connect the sensor to Channel > 3, AmaSeis shows a trace, but the trace does not move in either direction > if I stimulate the sensor. This is true for Channel, 2,3,4. Only Channel > 1, moves the trace in AmaSeis. > I think you can change the com port, in AmaSeis, but is there anywhere > you can or need to change for Channel selection? > In DataQ I closed all the Channels except Ch. 3 and saved before > closing. So If I were just using DataQ software, I would be operational. > > > Amaseis normally uses CH1 only. However there are two setup files > Amaseis.ini and AS1.ini. It may be possible to set a different channel by > editing and then saving the file, but I am not sure. I know that you get > your different sample rates this way. If you use a Dataq and Amaseis > without editing the ini file, you just get 6 SPS. > > This information is taken from an old 8 bit DI-194 board, which I > suspect that you have. > > Regards, > > Chris Chapman > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the > message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: My broken DataQ AD converter From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 20:39:18 EDT In a message dated 2007/04/01, gmvoeth@........... writes: > It is not practicle for the common man to work on surface mounted > technology you > need to work on the new boards is expensive and medical like tools require > fine skills. > If you like electronics as a hobby it is best to go to a university and > become an engineer. Hi Geoff, The same was probably said when we changed from hard wiring valves to transistor PCBs !! Sure, you need the tools for the job and it hasn't get any easier with time. The first requirements are a temperature controlled soldering iron, a solder sucker, SS tweezers and a head mounted magnifying glass. I agree that 'taking a circuit diagram' can take a lot of time and effort, but it can be done. You may only need to look at part of the circuit. I look for the earth connection and the power supply rails first. Since when did a degree in engineering equip you to deal with PCB electronics? Regards, Chris Chapman In a me= ssage dated 2007/04/01, gmvoeth@........... writes:

It is not practicle for the com= mon man to work on surface mounted technology you
need to work on the new boards is expensive and medical like tools require f= ine skills.
If you like electronics as a hobby it is best to go to a university and beco= me an engineer.


Hi Geoff,

       The same was probably said when we chan= ged from hard wiring valves to transistor PCBs !!

       Sure, you need the tools for the job an= d it hasn't get any easier with time. The first requirements are a temperatu= re controlled soldering iron, a solder sucker, SS tweezers and a head mounte= d magnifying glass.

       I agree that 'taking a circuit diagram'= can take a lot of time and effort, but it can be done. You may only need to= look at part of the circuit. I look for the earth connection and the power=20= supply rails first.

       Since when did a degree in engineering=20= equip you to deal with PCB electronics?

       Regards,

       Chris Chapman
 Subject: RE: My broken DataQ AD converter From: "Keith Payea" kpayea@........... Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 20:15:41 -0700 I must respectfully disagree with your statement about handling SMT boards. I, too, learned to solder by dis-assembling old tube (valve) radios, and building "Heath Kits" during the 70's. As technology marched on, I had to learn how to deal with smaller and smaller parts. I distinctly remember cartoons in the electronics hobbyist magazines of that era making fun of the tiny parts and losing them on the workbench. I'm sure they were talking about nothing smaller than 2N3904 transistors in TO-92 packages. I have typical 50 year old eyes and shaky hands, but I have successfully built and reworked many boards with 0402 SMT resistors and caps. While there are a few tools you need to work on SMT pc boards, they are neither hard to find nor expensive. Most electronics catalogs/websites have a decent soldering iron with a tip small enough to do the job. If you already have something better than a Radio Shack wood burner, you may be able to get a finer tip for a few bucks. Buy a roll or two of solder wick while you are at it and save your solder sucker for the big jobs. The way I install fine pitch, 100 pin ICs is to glob on the solder and then remove the excess with solder wick. One trick I use is to buy a pair of "drug store" reading glasses that are more powerful than the ones I use for just reading. For really tough jobs, I combine these with a magnifying lamp I got from Harbor Freight Tools. I would never buy their stuff through a catalog, without seeing it in person, but their magnifying lamp with flourescent lamp is a pretty good unit. Good tweezers can be found in the cosmetics section of most drug stores too. If the tip isn't fine enough, take a file and/or sandpaper to them. There are tons of tutorials on-line, complete with videos to show you how to do deal with small SMT parts. Here's a link to a pretty good one: http://www.epemag.wimborne.co.uk/solderfaq.htm I also highly recommend "MAKE" Magazine: www.makezine.com. I subscribe to their print and online versions. Oh, and lay off the quadruple latte's if you need to do some fine soldering work! I have to wait for the caffiene to wear off before I do any really fussy work.... Good Luck! Keith -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Geoffrey Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 2:38 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: My broken DataQ AD converter Someone who has reworked a PWB (printed wiring board) will most always leave signs like scratch marks or noticibly different solder work. Resistors will be cut and left in place rather than unsoldering them because a PWB can only take so much heat before the foil starts to peal away. No sense in doing unnecessary soldering. You must look with a magnifying glass at the solder joints to make sure they are well wetted and no fine hairs of conductive materials are where they are not wanted. No resistor should ever be burnt or the board under them. You really must have a schematic because the job of tracing out one yourself can be next to impossible. In past years the manufacturers would almost always provide schematics but today since most US industry has gone overseas these forign places will refuse to let you get the schematic thill the equipment is old and obsolete. It is not practicle for the common man to work on surface mounted technology you need to work on the new boards is expensive and medical like tools require fine skills. If you like electronics as a hobby it is best to go to a university and become an engineer. Technologist or if all else fails a Technician. Without the proper tools throw the old one away and buy a new one. You will waste your life/monies in trivial pursuits. ----- Original Message ----- From: "tchannel" To: Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 12:29 Subject: Re: My broken DataQ AD converter Well Chris, You did it again! I hope your head doesn't get too big.....But facts are facts. From way over there, in the UK?, you were able to help me fix this silly AD board, here in Boise Idaho, USA....... I do believe you were correct at every turn.... 1 I do think this is an older 194 8 bit board, from your physical description. 2 The resistor numbers on the surface mount components were 1003, and 2003. Of course the two missing ones had no numbers. But there was a pattern as the resistors were in a row, something like 1003,2003,1003,2003,1003,2003,xxxx,2003, so I figured the xxxx was the 1003, 100K 3 The other missing resistor was near others which had the 2003, so I figured the xxxx would be a 200K, the way it is built I could not see where these resistors were in the circuit. I soldered in the two missing resistors, and it is now working!!!!!!! 4 I did go to AmaSeis .ini files but did not see any "Channel # listed" so maybe it is always going to be Channel 1. and never Channel 2,3, or 4. 5 I do think you are correct about someone modifying the board to run as a +5v and a -0, as these two missing resistors just did not fail and fall off, they look like they were purposely popped off, small scratch marks in their place. Again, Many Thanks, Ted ----- Original Message ----- From: ChrisAtUpw@....... To: psn-l@.............. Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2007 12:00 PM Subject: Re: My broken DataQ AD converter In a message dated 2007/03/31, tchannel@.............. writes: Hi All, Looking closely at the board I see two resistors which are "Open" "cracked" Its a wonder it works at all, but some parts of it do work. Channel 1, only puts out + voltage, just a small amount of - I think that account for the AmaSeis trace showing only the top part of an earthquake. Hi Ted, The input resistors are two 200 K in series. The offset line is 100 K to the centre point. If any of them are damaged, it should not be difficult to replace them. Alternatively, could you unsolder the resistors on CH4 and replace the ones on CH1? The resistor values are printed on them eg 2003. I get about -0.59 V on the offset line and about 90 mV on the input. I suspect that this is because the ADC is not in operating mode. The offset line should be -5V for +/-10V input. Check the voltage on the offset line while the channel is switched on? However Channel, 2,3,4 all seem to work showing both positive and negative movement "In DataQ Software Only", in this software Channel 1, only shows positive trace movement, and, no negative. You could get this with failed resistors. Is the range 5V or 10V? I suspect that the ADC may have been 'modified' for a single polarity 5V signal? Can the friend who gave it to you provide any information? When I connected my Sensor to Channel 2,3 or 4 Using DataQ, I was thinking it would then work in AmaSeis, but it does not. It looks as if AmaSeis will not read any Channel except Channel 1. Even though in DataQ Channel 2,3,4 all seem to work fine. If I connect the sensor to Channel 3, AmaSeis shows a trace, but the trace does not move in either direction if I stimulate the sensor. This is true for Channel, 2,3,4. Only Channel 1, moves the trace in AmaSeis. I think you can change the com port, in AmaSeis, but is there anywhere you can or need to change for Channel selection? In DataQ I closed all the Channels except Ch. 3 and saved before closing. So If I were just using DataQ software, I would be operational. Amaseis normally uses CH1 only. However there are two setup files Amaseis.ini and AS1.ini. It may be possible to set a different channel by editing and then saving the file, but I am not sure. I know that you get your different sample rates this way. If you use a Dataq and Amaseis without editing the ini file, you just get 6 SPS. This information is taken from an old 8 bit DI-194 board, which I suspect that you have. Regards, Chris Chapman __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Large earthquake near Solomon Islands From: "Dale Hardy" photon1@........... Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 09:55:07 +1000 According to Red Puma, 59 EQ's >5.0 in the Solomons in the last few days, definitely not a place to be, however am getting good traces on my Lehman http://www.daleh.id.au/Current_Lehman_trace.GIF regards Dale To: Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 5:55 PM Subject: Re: Large earthquake near Solomon Islands > According to Red Puma, 59 EQ's >5.0 in the Solomons in the last few days, > definitely not a place to be, however > am getting good traces on my Lehman > http://www.daleh.id.au/Current_Lehman_trace.GIF > regards > Dale > > > > Solomon Islands. But based on how the earthquake is appearing on plots > around the world, I assume it is at least 0.5 magnitude bigger then > automatic system assume. > > Regards. > -- > Jón Frímann > http://www.jonfr.com > http://www.simnet.is/jonfr500/earthquake/ > > __________________________________________________________ > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the > message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Large earthquake near Solomon Islands From: "Dale Hardy" photon1@........... Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 11:27:58 +1000 Thanks Ted, I am located near Newcastle NSW Australia, some 2800km from the Solomons Dale ----- Original Message ----- From: "tchannel" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2007 10:21 AM Subject: Re: Large earthquake near Solomon Islands > Hi Dale, Very impressive, where are you located? Thanks, Ted in Idaho > > > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: My broken DataQ AD converter From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 22:40:18 EDT In a message dated 2007/04/02, kpayea@........... writes: > While there are a few tools you need to work on SMT pc boards, they are > neither hard to find nor expensive. Most electronics catalogs/websites have > a decent soldering iron with a tip small enough to do the job. Buy a roll > or two of solder wick while you are at it and save your solder sucker for the > big jobs. Hi Keith, It can also be useful to get strips of 2 thou SS foil off an old shaver, or an old SS razor blade. You can heat the solder joint and slide the foil in between the component and the board to unsolder the joint. SS tweezers are also fairly essential. Regards, Chris Chapman In a me= ssage dated 2007/04/02, kpayea@........... writes:

While there are a few tools you= need to work on SMT pc boards, they are
neither hard to find nor expensive.  Most electronics catalogs/websites= have
a decent soldering iron with a tip small enough to do the job.  Buy a r= oll or two of solder wick while you are at it and save your solder sucker fo= r the big jobs.


Hi Keith,

       It can also be useful to get strips of=20= 2 thou SS foil off an old shaver, or an old SS razor blade. You can heat the= solder joint and slide the foil in between the component and the board to u= nsolder the joint. SS tweezers are also fairly essential.

       Regards,

       Chris Chapman Subject: Re: Large earthquake near Solomon Islands From: "Michael Kimzey" mckimzey@........... Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 22:41:58 -0400 There sure is a lot of activity! ...where there are usually circles on the IRIS map...around the Solomons there is just one big red circle. -Mike __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Large earthquake near Solomon Islands From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2007 20:52:13 +0000 Hi all Besides all the aftershocks, the event appears to have sparked many earthquakes in nearby areas, many of them in mag 5.5 range or stronger. Regards. --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann http://www.jonfr.com http://www.simnet.is/jonfr500/earthquake/ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Volksmeter.... From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 20:51:51 EDT In a message dated 2007/03/31, mckimzey@........... writes: > I had been waiting (like a kid at Christmas!) for some info on Larry's site > (he said that there would be more info around February) but I'm sure he is > busy. I'll probably > just give a call some time this week now that there is a phone number. > Thanks for the feedback. Hi Mike, The current (introductory) price of a 2-channel VolksMeter (model VMII-RU2) is US$1495.00. The GPS Time Standard option (VMII-GPS) is US$125.00. The universal AC power supply (VMII-UACA) is US$35.00 (now includes UK and EU AC adapter plugs) Time to raid your 'piggy bank' ! ! Regards, Chris Chapman In a me= ssage dated 2007/03/31, mckimzey@........... writes:

I had been waiting (like a kid=20= at Christmas!) for some info on Larry's site (he said that there would be mo= re info around February) but I'm sure he is busy.  I'll probably
just give a call  some time this week now that there is a phone number.=  
Thanks for the feedback.


Hi Mike,

       The current (introductory) price of a 2= -channel VolksMeter (model VMII-RU2) is US$1495.00.  The GPS Time Stand= ard option (VMII-GPS) is US$125.00.  The universal AC power supply (VMI= I-UACA) is US$35.00 (now includes UK and EU AC adapter plugs)

       Time to raid your 'piggy bank' ! !

       Regards,

       Chris Chapman

       Subject: Re: Large earthquake near Solomon Islands From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 02:00:00 +0000 Hi all I have added a seismic station that USGS has a plot on from Solomon islands on my USGS plot webpage. The plot can be seen here. http://www.simnet.is/jonfr500/earthquake/tremorusgsen.htm Regards. --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann http://www.jonfr.com http://www.simnet.is/jonfr500/earthquake/ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Volksmeter.... From: "Michael Kimzey" mckimzey@........... Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2007 23:08:12 -0400 Thanks for the update Chris. I actually wrote to Les LaZar and received the full 'draft' info sheet. I just may raid the piggy bank. Here are some questions and musings to the list, though... In the grand scheme of things, where does the Volksmeter fit? Certainly, a beginner starts with the AS1 or Lehman (I have constructed both). Is the next step an SG? How does the Volksmeter compare to a STM-8 that is homebuilt? Or even to some of the sensors that Mr. Allan Coleman has made? The info sheet states that the Volksmeter compares favorably (although a tab less sensitive...and expensive) to a STS-1, which, I guess, is one of the _de facto_ standards. I've read through the very nice PDF on the Volksmeter at Larry's site, but I will admit that some of the information has gone over my head. (Anyone else lost on some of the diagrams?) If I can't understand all of it, wound (or should) that preclude someone (me) from purchasing such a system? Maybe I'm just thinking way too much, but certainly the dollar amount would warrant it. - Mike __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re:webpage From: "Michael Kimzey" mckimzey@........... Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2007 23:22:14 -0400 Jon, I updated my site a little and my new plots are named mk1.gif and mk2.gif. You may need to update your page. http://mckimzey.homeip.net:8080/seismometer/mk1.gif http://mckimzey.homeip.net:8080/seismometer/mk2.gif As you can see from my other post, I'm thinking about the Volksmeter. If I get one, I'll let you know about those links also. Regards, - Mike Kimzey __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: GPS Based frequency reference From: Philip Schmidt pgschmidt@............... Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 21:18:52 +0930 Hello All Last month a Australian electronics magazine called Silicon Chip published the first of a two part article on a GPS-Based Frequency reference. I am not sure if it would come in handy to people on the list however at the very least I though it should get a mention. The article is available on line to purchase. An introduction is available to view at the following link http://www.siliconchip.com.au/cms/A_108508/article.html Hope it comes in handy to someone out there. Cheers Philip Schmidt __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Solomon Islands From: "Dale Hardy" photon1@........... Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 21:56:51 +1000 Another earthquake is occurring at the moment at the Loyalty Islands, = making 3 days of extreme activity in the area, does anyone know of = previous events comparable to this 'swarm', currently 12 earthquakes on = my Amaseis screen Dale
Another earthquake is occurring at the = moment at=20 the Loyalty Islands, making 3 days of extreme activity in the area, does = anyone=20 know of previous events comparable to this 'swarm', currently 12 = earthquakes on=20 my Amaseis screen
Dale
Subject: Re: Solomon Islands From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 12:52:26 +0000 Hi I don't know about any comparision to this earthquake aftershock activite. But I do think that the area did be come unstable when the area was struck by mag 8.1 earthquake. At current rate it is going to be a long time until it slows down agen. Regards. --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann http://www.jonfr.com http://www.simnet.is/jonfr500/earthquake/ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Solomon Islands From: Stephen & Kathy skmort@............ Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 09:19:56 -0700 I did a look up for 6+ events for the 2004 Sumatra quake and found 14 within about 48 hours! My count of 6+ events for this swarm is 9 within 48 hours! I was unable to find complete data for the 1960 Chile, and 1964 Alaska quakes???? Stephen PSN Station #55 Dale Hardy wrote: > Another earthquake is occurring at the moment at the Loyalty Islands, > making 3 days of extreme activity in the area, does anyone know of > previous events comparable to this 'swarm', currently 12 earthquakes > on my Amaseis screen > Dale I did a look up for 6+ events for the 2004 Sumatra quake and found 14 within about 48 hours!   My count of 6+ events for this swarm is 9 within 48 hours!    I was unable to find complete data for the 1960 Chile, and 1964 Alaska quakes????
  Stephen
  PSN Station #55
 

Dale Hardy wrote:
Another earthquake is occurring at the moment at the Loyalty Islands, making 3 days of extreme activity in the area, does anyone know of previous events comparable to this 'swarm', currently 12 earthquakes on my Amaseis screen
Dale
Subject: Tiltmeter progress From: George Bush ke6pxp@....... Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 10:01:45 -0700 Chris- I wanted to report on my recent activity with the tiltmeter (NOT the tiltometer!). Your last comment to me about the Linear LTC1043 circuit going unstable if the Cx is smaller than the Cref has opened a door and I am now proceeding. Knowing that the circuit was working was of great value and I stopped trouble-shooting and have attached the circuit to the tiltmeter yesterday! The instrument is amazingly stable, no apparent noise on the scope, no sensitivity to moving my hands near the un-shielded Hg pots and it seems to just simply work. I did a simple sensitivy check. The plate the two pots are mounted on is supported by screws in a triangle configuration (see http://ntweb.mcn.org/gbush/Tiltmeter/Construction/Construction.html). The pots are separated by 24" center-to-center, and the micrometer leveller leg is separated from the other end two suppoort screws by 27 1/2". When I adjusted the micrometer by .01" vertically, I got an output voltage change reading of 0.193v. If my trig is correct this is the voltage change for a tilt change of 6.347 -07 deg. I have no feeling if this is getting into the ball-park of sensitivity needed to detect Earth tides. What sensitivity do you think is needed? Since yesterday afternoon I have periodically recorded output voltage and time. This is the signal so far: Date Time Vout ---- ---- ---- 3-4-07 1:21p 1.625 3:45p 1.594 5:27p 1.605 6:30p 1.615 4-4-07 9:29a 1.654 Presently I am connecting the instrument to my Windaq DI-194 to try to plot daily signal variations. Then I will be able to see if I need to add another stage of gain. After that, a complete mechanical tear-down to shield the Hg cups and connecting tube and to build an insulated enclosure with a heater in the top. I can see light at the end of the tunnel and am really geting excited! George __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Tiltmeter progress From: "tchannel" tchannel@.............. Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 11:59:14 -0600 Hi George, This is interesting. Where can I find articles to read more about the basic principle. etc. Thanks, Ted ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Bush" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 11:01 AM Subject: Tiltmeter progress > Chris- > > I wanted to report on my recent activity with the tiltmeter (NOT the > tiltometer!). > > Your last comment to me about the Linear LTC1043 circuit going unstable if > the Cx is smaller than the Cref has opened a door and I am now proceeding. > Knowing that the circuit was working was of great value and I stopped > trouble-shooting and have attached the circuit to the tiltmeter yesterday! > The instrument is amazingly stable, no apparent noise on the scope, no > sensitivity to moving my hands near the un-shielded Hg pots and it seems > to > just simply work. > > I did a simple sensitivy check. The plate the two pots are mounted on is > supported by screws in a triangle configuration (see > http://ntweb.mcn.org/gbush/Tiltmeter/Construction/Construction.html). > The pots are separated by 24" center-to-center, and the micrometer > leveller > leg is separated from the other end two suppoort screws by 27 1/2". When I > adjusted the micrometer by .01" vertically, I got an output voltage change > reading of 0.193v. If my trig is correct this is the voltage change for a > tilt change of 6.347 -07 deg. I have no feeling if this is getting into > the > ball-park of sensitivity needed to detect Earth tides. What sensitivity do > you think is needed? > > Since yesterday afternoon I have periodically recorded output voltage and > time. This is the signal so far: > > Date Time Vout > ---- ---- ---- > 3-4-07 1:21p 1.625 > 3:45p 1.594 > 5:27p 1.605 > 6:30p 1.615 > 4-4-07 9:29a 1.654 > > Presently I am connecting the instrument to my Windaq DI-194 to try to > plot > daily signal variations. Then I will be able to see if I need to add > another stage of gain. After that, a complete mechanical tear-down to > shield the Hg cups and connecting tube and to build an insulated enclosure > with a heater in the top. > > I can see light at the end of the tunnel and am really geting excited! > > > George > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Tiltmeter progress From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 17:54:23 EDT In a message dated 2007/04/07, tchannel@.............. writes: > Hi George, This is interesting. Where can I find articles to read more > about the basic principle. etc. Hi Ted, See http://ntweb.mcn.org/gbush/Tiltmeter/tiltmeter%20Main.html for several references. This tiltmeter has two Perspex cups 2 ft apart on a baseplate, connected by plastic tube and part filled with Mercury. Two flat plates are suspended just above the Hg surfaces to form capacitative level detectors. The cup system is sealed to contain the Hg vapour, which is very poisonous and attacks electronic components, Cu wire, pcbs etc like fun. The original SciAm circuit used valves, a crystal oscillator and resonant tuned detectors followed by diode rectifiers. The oscillating voltages were quite high. The Nuts and Volts version was an adaptation of this to semiconductors, with lower voltages. The new N&V board seemed to suffer from AC hum from the on board PSU. A major problem with the whole concept is that the foreward voltage of rectifier diodes drifts by about 2.5 mV / C deg and the resonant circuits also drift with temperarure. So, unless you are very determined, you may end up with an expensive differential thermometer sensitive to random air movements and to any stray capacitance going. The work/satisfaction ratio may be discouraging. A good way around this ''problem'' is to redesign the circuit using a capacitative detector working at high audio frequencies, not at RF and to provide a FET phase sensitive detector. The LTC1043 IC has all the switching components on it. You can use the on chip oscillator, but I found that an external Crystal oscillator gave significantly better results. I used a 2.4576 M Hz AT cut crystal in a 4060 oscillator divider circuit, giving a 9.6 kHz drive. If you want to sense only earth tides and similar, severely damping the Hg flow will tend to reject any passing earthquakes, local delivery trucks, etc. Clamp a piece of cleaned iron wire centrally in the plastic tube containing the Hg, using an external clamp maybe 1" wide. Hg 'wets' the iron, but does not dissolve it, leaving two narrow triangular passages bounded by the plastic and the wire. Regards, Chris Chapman In a me= ssage dated 2007/04/07, tchannel@.............. writes:

Hi George,  This is intere= sting.  Where can I find articles to read more
about the basic principle. etc.


Hi Ted,

       See http://ntweb.mcn.org/gbush/Tiltmete= r/tiltmeter%20Main.html for several references.
       This tiltmeter has two Perspex cups 2 f= t apart on a baseplate, connected by plastic tube and part filled with Mercu= ry. Two flat plates are suspended just above the Hg surfaces to form capacit= ative level detectors. The cup system is sealed to contain the Hg vapour, wh= ich is very poisonous and attacks electronic components, Cu wire, pcbs etc l= ike fun.
       The original SciAm circuit used valves,= a crystal oscillator and resonant tuned detectors followed by diode rectifi= ers. The oscillating voltages were quite high. The Nuts and Volts version wa= s an adaptation of this to semiconductors, with lower voltages. The new N&am= p;V board seemed to suffer from AC hum from the on board PSU. A major proble= m with the whole concept is that the foreward voltage of rectifier diodes dr= ifts by about 2.5 mV / C deg and the resonant circuits also drift with tempe= rarure. So, unless you are very determined, you may end up with an expensive= differential thermometer sensitive to random air movements and to any stray= capacitance going. The work/satisfaction ratio may be discouraging.
       A good way around this ''problem'' is t= o redesign the circuit using a capacitative detector working at high audio f= requencies, not at RF and to provide a FET phase sensitive detector. The LTC= 1043 IC has all the switching components on it. You can use the on chip osci= llator, but I found that an external Crystal oscillator gave significantly b= etter results. I used a 2.4576 M Hz AT cut crystal in a 4060 oscillator divi= der circuit, giving a 9.6 kHz drive.
       If you want to sense only earth tides a= nd similar, severely damping the Hg flow will tend to reject any passing ear= thquakes, local delivery trucks, etc. Clamp a piece of cleaned iron wire cen= trally in the plastic tube containing the Hg, using an external clamp maybe=20= 1" wide. Hg 'wets' the iron, but does not dissolve it, leaving two narrow tr= iangular passages bounded by the plastic and the wire.

       Regards,

       Chris Chapman Subject: Re: Tiltmeter progress From: George Bush ke6pxp@....... Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2007 15:44:23 -0700 Ted- I want to apologize to you and the list for sending a message for Chris Chapman to the whole list (I just hit reply without seeing who it was replying to). I have been interested in Earth tides and have wanted to make an instrument to measure them. C. L. Strong originally had an article on making a tiltmeter based on two mercury-filled cups connected by a tube and measuring the level by a capacitance gauge, "A sensitive mercury tiltmeter that serves as a seismometer" Scientific American, November 1973, pp. 124-129. The electronics were updated by an article in Nuts & Volts by Ron Newton, "Measure Earth Tides with a Tiltometer" I ordered a board from Ron, but was unable to make it work. I have just completed a circuit suggested by Chris based on the Linear Technology LTC 1043 chip and the email to Chris was to let him know how it was working. Check my website at http://ntweb.mcn.org/gbush/Tiltmeter/tiltmeter%20Main.html for further info on my project and references. At 11:59 AM 4/4/2007 -0600, you wrote: >Hi George, This is interesting. Where can I find articles to read more >about the basic principle. etc. Thanks, Ted ....snip... George __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Tiltmeter progress From: "tchannel" tchannel@.............. Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 16:55:02 -0600 Hi George, Thanks for the reply, to me this is great stuff, new to me. How is it working for you? Do you have a larger picture of the unit as illustrated at the top of you wed page? I can't see it very well. Thanks, Ted ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Bush" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 4:44 PM Subject: Re: Tiltmeter progress > Ted- > > I want to apologize to you and the list for sending a message for Chris > Chapman to the whole list (I just hit reply without seeing who it was > replying to). I have been interested in Earth tides and have wanted to > make > an instrument to measure them. C. L. Strong originally had an article on > making a tiltmeter based on two mercury-filled cups connected by a tube > and > measuring the level by a capacitance gauge, "A sensitive mercury tiltmeter > that serves as a seismometer" Scientific American, November 1973, pp. > 124-129. The electronics were updated by an article in Nuts & Volts by Ron > Newton, "Measure Earth Tides with a Tiltometer" I ordered a board from > Ron, > but was unable to make it work. I have just completed a circuit suggested > by Chris based on the Linear Technology LTC 1043 chip and the email to > Chris was to let him know how it was working. > > Check my website at > http://ntweb.mcn.org/gbush/Tiltmeter/tiltmeter%20Main.html > for further info on my project and references. > > At 11:59 AM 4/4/2007 -0600, you wrote: >>Hi George, This is interesting. Where can I find articles to read more >>about the basic principle. etc. Thanks, Ted > ...snip... > George > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Tiltmeter progress From: "tchannel" tchannel@.............. Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 17:03:06 -0600 Hi Chris, Thanks for the explanation. Have they also use lasers, in = such devises? Ted ----- Original Message -----=20 From: ChrisAtUpw@.......... To: psn-l@................. Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 3:54 PM Subject: Re: Tiltmeter progress In a message dated 2007/04/07, tchannel@.............. writes: Hi George, This is interesting. Where can I find articles to read = more=20 about the basic principle. etc.=20 Hi Ted, See http://ntweb.mcn.org/gbush/Tiltmeter/tiltmeter%20Main.html = for several references. This tiltmeter has two Perspex cups 2 ft apart on a baseplate, = connected by plastic tube and part filled with Mercury. Two flat plates = are suspended just above the Hg surfaces to form capacitative level = detectors. The cup system is sealed to contain the Hg vapour, which is = very poisonous and attacks electronic components, Cu wire, pcbs etc like = fun. The original SciAm circuit used valves, a crystal oscillator = and resonant tuned detectors followed by diode rectifiers. The = oscillating voltages were quite high. The Nuts and Volts version was an = adaptation of this to semiconductors, with lower voltages. The new N&V = board seemed to suffer from AC hum from the on board PSU. A major = problem with the whole concept is that the foreward voltage of rectifier = diodes drifts by about 2.5 mV / C deg and the resonant circuits also = drift with temperarure. So, unless you are very determined, you may end = up with an expensive differential thermometer sensitive to random air = movements and to any stray capacitance going. The work/satisfaction = ratio may be discouraging. A good way around this ''problem'' is to redesign the circuit = using a capacitative detector working at high audio frequencies, not at = RF and to provide a FET phase sensitive detector. The LTC1043 IC has all = the switching components on it. You can use the on chip oscillator, but = I found that an external Crystal oscillator gave significantly better = results. I used a 2.4576 M Hz AT cut crystal in a 4060 oscillator = divider circuit, giving a 9.6 kHz drive.=20 If you want to sense only earth tides and similar, severely = damping the Hg flow will tend to reject any passing earthquakes, local = delivery trucks, etc. Clamp a piece of cleaned iron wire centrally in = the plastic tube containing the Hg, using an external clamp maybe 1" = wide. Hg 'wets' the iron, but does not dissolve it, leaving two narrow = triangular passages bounded by the plastic and the wire. Regards, Chris Chapman
Hi Chris,  Thanks for the = explanation. =20 Have they also use lasers, in such devises?   Ted
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 ChrisAtUpw@.......
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 = 3:54=20 PM
Subject: Re: Tiltmeter = progress

In a=20 message dated 2007/04/07, tchannel@..............=20 writes:

Hi George,  This is interesting.  Where can I = find=20 articles to read more
about the basic principle. etc.=20

Hi = Ted,

       See=20 http:= //ntweb.mcn.org/gbush/Tiltmeter/tiltmeter%20Main.html=20 for several references.
       This = tiltmeter=20 has two Perspex cups 2 ft apart on a baseplate, connected by plastic = tube and=20 part filled with Mercury. Two flat plates are suspended just above the = Hg=20 surfaces to form capacitative level detectors. The cup system is = sealed to=20 contain the Hg vapour, which is very poisonous and attacks electronic=20 components, Cu wire, pcbs etc like=20 fun.
       The original SciAm = circuit used=20 valves, a crystal oscillator and resonant tuned detectors followed by = diode=20 rectifiers. The oscillating voltages were quite high. The Nuts and = Volts=20 version was an adaptation of this to semiconductors, with lower = voltages. The=20 new N&V board seemed to suffer from AC hum from the on board PSU. = A major=20 problem with the whole concept is that the foreward voltage of = rectifier=20 diodes drifts by about 2.5 mV / C deg and the resonant circuits also = drift=20 with temperarure. So, unless you are very determined, you may end up = with an=20 expensive differential thermometer sensitive to random air movements = and to=20 any stray capacitance going. The work/satisfaction ratio may be=20 discouraging.
       A good way = around this=20 ''problem'' is to redesign the circuit using a capacitative detector = working=20 at high audio frequencies, not at RF and to provide a FET phase = sensitive=20 detector. The LTC1043 IC has all the switching components on it. You = can use=20 the on chip oscillator, but I found that an external Crystal = oscillator gave=20 significantly better results. I used a 2.4576 M Hz AT cut crystal in a = 4060=20 oscillator divider circuit, giving a 9.6 kHz drive.=20
       If you want to sense only = earth tides=20 and similar, severely damping the Hg flow will tend to reject any = passing=20 earthquakes, local delivery trucks, etc. Clamp a piece of cleaned iron = wire=20 centrally in the plastic tube containing the Hg, using an external = clamp maybe=20 1" wide. Hg 'wets' the iron, but does not dissolve it, leaving two = narrow=20 triangular passages bounded by the plastic and the=20 wire.

      =20 Regards,

       Chris = Chapman=20 Subject: Re: Tiltmeter progress From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2007 20:54:56 EDT In a message dated 2007/04/05, tchannel@.............. writes: > Hi Chris, Thanks for the explanation. Have they also use lasers, in such > devises? Ted Hi Ted, Lasers have been used, but I don't know how successfully. In seismic applications you tend to be limited by 1/2 the wavelength of light for fringe counting - a step size of say ~0.3 micron = large. Fringe counting may sound simple, but it is not a 'cheap and easy technique'. Your average microseism may be ~2 microns. You want to measure seismic movements down to nano metres. Measuring to 1/100 of a wavelength tends to be very costly. Especially when a small filament bulb and a couple of Si photocells can give you an optical sensor with a noise level <15 nano metres! The intensity stability of semiconductor lasers in my experience is lousy. The huge open trough tiltmeters in Washington State use floats with 'free armature' LVDT magnetic sensors. See http://www.geodesy.cwu.edu/tilt/ The smaller ones at Walferdange use capacitative sensors of at least two types. There are also small bubble tiltmeters, which use AC fluid resistance measurement, but they do not have such a high resolution. They tend to be used for monitoring the tilts of buildings, bridges, roads, etc. See several des criptions at http://www.geomechanics.com/bibliography.cfm The Earth Tide tilts may be ~0.25 micro radian = 1/4 mm at 1 km = not very large. Regards, Chris Chapman In a me= ssage dated 2007/04/05, tchannel@.............. writes:

Hi Chris,  Thanks for the=20= explanation.  Have they also use lasers, in such devises?   T= ed


Hi Ted,

       Lasers have been used, but I don't know= how successfully. In seismic applications you tend to be limited by 1/2 the= wavelength of light for fringe counting - a step size of say ~0.3 micron=20= =3D large. Fringe counting may sound simple, but it is not a 'cheap and easy= technique'. Your average microseism may be ~2 microns. You want to measure=20= seismic movements down to nano metres. Measuring to 1/100 of a wavelength te= nds to be very costly. Especially when a small filament bulb and a couple of= Si photocells can give you an optical sensor with a noise level <15 nano= metres! The intensity stability of semiconductor lasers in my experience is= lousy.
       The huge open trough tiltmeters in Wash= ington State use floats with 'free armature' LVDT magnetic sensors. See http= ://www.geodesy.cwu.edu/tilt/  
       The smaller ones at Walferdange use cap= acitative sensors of at least two types. There are also small bubble tiltmet= ers, which use AC fluid resistance measurement, but they do not have such a=20= high resolution. They tend to be used for monitoring the tilts of buildings,= bridges, roads, etc. See several descriptions at http://www.geomechanics.co= m/bibliography.cfm
       The Earth Tide tilts may be ~0.25 micro= radian =3D 1/4 mm at 1 km =3D not very large.

       Regards,

       Chris Chapman Subject: Re: Tiltmeter designs From: George Bush ke6pxp@....... Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2007 09:57:01 -0700 Ted- The picture on the top of my website was from the Scientific American article I mentioned below. On my web you can see what my instrument looks like. My approach may not be the best route. I have been following the work of the FMES group (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fmes) and the instrument designed by Dave Nelson (davefnelson@........ that is based on the resistance of water in a similar two-cup configuration. He uses circuits with hi-pass coupling, and I was wondering if dc-coupled circuits could possibly be used to detect earth tides? I am concentrating on getting my system working, but it might be fun if someone else wanted to look in to modifying Dave's instrument for ultra-low freq operation. Thank you for your interest. At 04:55 PM 4/4/2007 -0600, you wrote: >Hi George, Thanks for the reply, to me this is great stuff, new to me. > >How is it working for you? Do you have a larger picture of the unit as >illustrated at the top of you wed page? >I can't see it very well. Thanks, Ted > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "George Bush" >To: >Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 4:44 PM >Subject: Re: Tiltmeter progress > > >> Ted- >> >> I want to apologize to you and the list for sending a message for Chris >> Chapman to the whole list (I just hit reply without seeing who it was >> replying to). I have been interested in Earth tides and have wanted to >> make >> an instrument to measure them. C. L. Strong originally had an article on >> making a tiltmeter based on two mercury-filled cups connected by a tube >> and >> measuring the level by a capacitance gauge, "A sensitive mercury tiltmeter >> that serves as a seismometer" Scientific American, November 1973, pp. >> 124-129. The electronics were updated by an article in Nuts & Volts by Ron >> Newton, "Measure Earth Tides with a Tiltometer" I ordered a board from >> Ron, >> but was unable to make it work. I have just completed a circuit suggested >> by Chris based on the Linear Technology LTC 1043 chip and the email to >> Chris was to let him know how it was working. >> >> Check my website at >> http://ntweb.mcn.org/gbush/Tiltmeter/tiltmeter%20Main.html >> for further info on my project and references. >> >> ...snip... > George __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: GPS and solarflairs From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2007 00:18:10 +0000 Hi all I want to point out artical about solar flairs and how they can disrupt a gps signal.=20 http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/04/05/solar_flares_zap_gps/ It is worth tracking solar flares since most of us recording earthquakes use gps to keep track of time. Regards. --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann http://www.jonfr.com http://www.simnet.is/jonfr500/earthquake/ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: My broken DataQ AD converter From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2007 18:00:31 -0700 Personal experience has shown me only factories are properly equipped and funded to handle modern day electronics. The small business peoples and private individuals usually are not properly trained to do these things. It is mainly my personal preference speaking here. The only exception I make are with Engineering techs who make models for Engineers that have not yet been put into production. Unless they use special tools just about anyone with previous experience in the field should be able to reproduce and work on their designs. But as for final products after FAT Final Assembly and Test I would never recommend anyone trying to alter anything other than a minor field change/alt or replacement of a socketed chip. I would make no major changes to pre-built factory type devices. I once knew a tech who thought he could spudge a microwave oscillator without any special tools but later found out through personal experience in the field that thousand of dollars of special purpose tools were reqired to do the stuff that- that guy was trying to do blind. I was caught in a kind of trap that my senior would make me look like a sabatour because of his actions. I do not recommend wasting ones times with the unknown unless the results are possibly- significantly profitable. I dont necessarily mean money when I say this. The purpose is to have fun here. Or at least that is MY goal. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, April 01, 2007 17:39 Subject: Re: My broken DataQ AD converter > In a message dated 2007/04/01, gmvoeth@........... writes: > >> It is not practicle for the common man to work on surface mounted >> technology you >> need to work on the new boards is expensive and medical like tools require >> fine skills. >> If you like electronics as a hobby it is best to go to a university and >> become an engineer. > > Hi Geoff, > > The same was probably said when we changed from hard wiring valves to > transistor PCBs !! > > Sure, you need the tools for the job and it hasn't get any easier with > time. The first requirements are a temperature controlled soldering iron, a > solder sucker, SS tweezers and a head mounted magnifying glass. > > I agree that 'taking a circuit diagram' can take a lot of time and > effort, but it can be done. You may only need to look at part of the circuit. I > look for the earth connection and the power supply rails first. > > Since when did a degree in engineering equip you to deal with PCB > electronics? > > Regards, > > Chris Chapman > > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: GPS and solarflairs From: Brad Douglas rez@.................. Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2007 05:05:06 +0000 On Fri, 2007-04-06 at 00:18 +0000, JĂłn FrĂ­mann wrote: > Hi all > > I want to point out artical about solar flairs and how they can disrupt > a gps signal. > > http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/04/05/solar_flares_zap_gps/ > > It is worth tracking solar flares since most of us recording earthquakes > use gps to keep track of time. Keep in mind that we're just now coming up from a solar minimum and this next cycle is supposed to be particularly strong (but solar modeling is far from diagnostic). Not only can solar flares disrupt propagation paths, but can also alter the atmospheric index of refraction and gas composition, further complication matters of spacial precision. Here's an overview of the effects on positioning due to medium (atmosphere) alteration by solar interaction: http://citeseer.ist.psu.edu/418582.html GPS is resistant to flares to a certain level, but has been demonstrated in the last cycle (where user density was much smaller and SA was on) that they can be knocked out for periods of time. The GLONASS and next gen GPS constellations should address these concerns. We have a few years to go before the solar maximum. Personally, I'm a little more concerned with ISS than satellites. It's impossible to do an EVA in those conditions and only limited areas of the ISS are shielded. -- 73, de Brad KB8UYR/6 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: My broken DataQ AD converter From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2007 06:26:12 EDT In a message dated 2007/04/07, gmvoeth@........... writes: > I once knew a tech who thought he could spudge a microwave oscillator > without any special tools but later found out through personal experience in the > field that thousand of dollars of special purpose tools were reqired to do the > stuff that- > that guy was trying to do blind. Hi Geoff, What does 'spudge' involve, please? I don't know the term. What adjustements and measurements are involved in setting up and regulating this microwave oscillator? How does this relate to handling SIM ICs on a circuit board? Regards, Chris Chapman In a me= ssage dated 2007/04/07, gmvoeth@........... writes:

I once knew a tech who thought=20= he could spudge a microwave oscillator without any special tools but later f= ound out through personal experience in the field that thousand of dollars o= f special purpose tools were reqired to do the stuff that-
that guy was trying to do blind.


Hi Geoff,

       What does 'spudge' involve, please? I d= on't know the term.
       What adjustements and measurements are=20= involved in setting up and regulating this microwave oscillator?

       How does this relate to handling SIM IC= s on a circuit board?

       Regards,

       Chris Chapman Subject: Prior earthquake before a larger one From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2007 13:32:34 +0000 Hi all Yesterday at 18:39 there was a mag 4.5 earthquake 285 km north of my location. I did record that earthquake really good on my system, the traces of this earthquake can be seen here. http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/0704/070406.184900.hvt1z.= psn http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/0704/070406.184900.hvt1n.= psn http://seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/makegif.exe?/quakes/0704/070406.184900.hvt1e.= psn I do belive that this earthquake is a prior earthquake to a much larger earthquake somewhere close to the location of this earthquake. I have seen activie in this region few weeks back with mag 3 - 4 earthquakes. The activite appears to be on the rise in that area. It is hard to tell when this earthquake is going to hit, but I do expect it hit sometimes in next two weeks. Regards. --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann http://www.jonfr.com http://www.simnet.is/jonfr500/earthquake/ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Solomon island earthquake effect on the crust From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2007 14:14:43 +0000 Hi all Here is a intresting news about what did happen in the Solomon Island earthquake. http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?NewsID=3D1089455 It appears that the earthquake did change the landscape in the island cluster and has in some areas lifted the crust up by many meters. So much that islands that where below the ocen are now on dry land. Regards. --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann http://www.jonfr.com http://www.simnet.is/jonfr500/earthquake/ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Solomon island earthquake effect on the crust From: Roger Sparks rsparks@.......... Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2007 06:11:02 -0700 Good Morning All, Here is another Uplifting Article that describes effects from the Solomon Island Quake, Roger > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Earthquake swarm on the Reykjanes Ridge From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2007 23:10:43 +0000 Hi all There has just started a earthquake swarm on the Reykjanes Ridge. This earthquake swarm appears to be bigger then the one I did obserive in Week 9 of 2007. At his moment there has been at least one mag 3.5 earthquake (size unkown when I write this message). There is a possiblitie that this is a volcano related earthquake swarms. But at the moment I don't know if this volcano related or not. I will send more info if I need to. Regards. --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann http://www.jonfr.com http://www.simnet.is/jonfr500/earthquake/ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Earthquake swarm on the Reykjanes Ridge From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2007 12:53:28 +0000 Hi all I have sent in the mag 3+ earthquakes I did record from the ongoing earthquake swarm on the Reykjanes Ridge. The largest earthquakes are in the order of mag 4 to 5. The swarm is still ongoing. Regards. --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann http://www.jonfr.com http://www.simnet.is/jonfr500/earthquake/ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Earthquake swarm on the Reykjanes Ridge From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 15:39:24 +0000 Hi all The Reykjanes Ridge earthquake swarm appears to be over. I did record well over 50 earthquakes in this swarm. Many of them are overlapping each other and others are less then 1 min apart. It is unknown at this time if it is volcano related or not. Last swarm in this area was in week 9, but at more distance from the shore. Regards. --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann http://www.jonfr.com http://www.simnet.is/jonfr500/earthquake/ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: new additions From: Dave Nelson davenn@............... Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 15:48:53 +1000 Greetings Gang, a note to let you all know there are a couple of new additions to the PSN Station Map and Database. Ted Channel Boise, Idaho and Idaho Museum of Mining and Geology (station managed by Linda Channel) www.sydneystormcity.com/map.htm (USA section) thanks for adding your info and just a reminder to everyone else dont forget to email me with updates if you make changes to your station. Chers Dave Nelson Sydney, Australia www.sydneystormcity.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: A record week From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 07:09:01 +0000 Hi all This week has been a record for me (Week 15). My station has recored 63+ earthquakes this week and I have not even finised reviewing all the earthquakes I got. I also have many overlapping events to go over. There is also one day left over this week and many things can happen in the time left. Regards. --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann http://www.jonfr.com http://www.simnet.is/jonfr500/earthquake/ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: new additions From: John or Jan Lahr JohnJan@........ Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 07:01:33 -0700 Hi Dave, Nice maps! Thanks for this big effort! I'm running an IRIS "Seismographs in School" station in my basement. IRIS has provided more than 140 such stations to educators around the country, and the number increases by about 30 per year. See: http://www.iris.edu/edu/AS1.htm and: http://jclahr.com/science/psn/as1/ It would be great if amateurs living near a school or museum station would stop by to see if they could use any help in operating the equipment or interpreting their seismograms. Most of these stations are registered with SpiNet: http://www.scienceeducationsolutions.org/spinet/spinet_stations.php Unfortunately they don't have an interactive station map like the one you maintain for the PSN. Or, if your local school doesn't have a seismic station, but does have an interested teacher, it would be great to help the teacher set one up. They could apply to obtain one from IRIS, or apply for a small grant to purchase one for about $600. There are many sources of small grants for teachers. All of the IRIS teachers use an AS-1 with AmaSeis so that it's easy to compare records between schools. Some of the helicorder images are posted here: http://jclahr.com/science/psn/as1/heli/allas1.php Cheers, John Lahr Corvallis, Oregon At 10:48 PM 4/14/2007, you wrote: > Greetings Gang, > a note to let you all know there are a couple of new additions to the PSN >Station Map and Database. > > Ted Channel Boise, Idaho > and > Idaho Museum of Mining and Geology (station managed by Linda Channel) > > www.sydneystormcity.com/map.htm >(USA section) > thanks for adding your info >and just a reminder to everyone else dont forget to email me with updates >if you make changes to your station. > >Chers >Dave Nelson >Sydney, Australia >www.sydneystormcity.com > >__________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: new additions From: "Stephen Hammond" shammon1@............. Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 10:49:33 -0700 Welcome to the group and great work on the map Dave. Regards, Steve Hammond PSN San Jose, Aptos Calif. -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Dave Nelson Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 10:49 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: new additions Greetings Gang, a note to let you all know there are a couple of new additions to the PSN Station Map and Database. Ted Channel Boise, Idaho and Idaho Museum of Mining and Geology (station managed by Linda Channel) www.sydneystormcity.com/map.htm (USA section) thanks for adding your info and just a reminder to everyone else dont forget to email me with updates if you make changes to your station. Chers Dave Nelson Sydney, Australia www.sydneystormcity.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: new additions From: "tchannel" tchannel@.............. Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 12:43:10 -0600 Hi Folks, Just a note on our new station here in Boise Idaho. The IMMG, Idaho Museum of Mining and Geology, is a small, all volunteers group who run a Museum about 5 miles East of my other sensor TCID. The site is located at an Old Penitentiary. The building they are in is called the "Trusty Building" The whole area is very interesting. They have gardens tours of the Prison, and many activities during the summer. The Penitentiary looks like a set, from the 1930's gangster movies, guard towers old rusted security lights, and entirely made of blocks of local sandstone, quarried from the near by hills. Their wed site is __________________. Most of the volunteers are retired Earth Science folks, Miners, or rock hounds. Linda, my Wife, is retired from the USGS after 31 years. She and some others thought it would be great to have a Seismometer. I found your group and with all of your input and suggestions was able to help them out. They now have their new Station up and running, and each day is like Christmas for them. It is the greatest single display in their Museum. The volunteers and the visitors, young and old think it is the greatest. I wanted to thank the group and everyone who helped me over the months, with answers, diagrams, sources, parts, troubleshooting, and encouragement. Cheers, Ted ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Hammond" To: Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2007 11:49 AM Subject: RE: new additions > Welcome to the group and great work on the map Dave. > Regards, Steve Hammond PSN San Jose, Aptos Calif. > > -----Original Message----- > From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... > On Behalf Of Dave Nelson > Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 10:49 PM > To: psn-l@.............. > Subject: new additions > > Greetings Gang, > a note to let you all know there are a couple of new additions to > the PSN > Station Map and Database. > > Ted Channel Boise, Idaho > and > Idaho Museum of Mining and Geology (station managed by Linda > Channel) > > www.sydneystormcity.com/map.htm > (USA section) > thanks for adding your info > and just a reminder to everyone else dont forget to email me with > updates > if you make changes to your station. > > Chers > Dave Nelson > Sydney, Australia > www.sydneystormcity.com > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: IMMG address From: "tchannel" tchannel@.............. Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2007 12:49:15 -0600 Sorry I forgot the IMMG address. They are in the process of updating = their page, so I hope it is avail. Ted, http://www.idahomuseum.org/
Sorry I forgot the IMMG address.  = They are in=20 the process of updating their page, so I hope it is avail.
 
 
Ted,          =         =20 http://www.idahomuseum.org/<= /SPAN>
Subject: Re: new additions From: "peter la plante" laplantep@............... Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 11:03:00 -0600 Hello: My name is Pete and I am located between Parma and Nyssa Oregon. I have been interested in seismology for many years and about a year ago I started to put together a monitoring station. I purchased a 3 channel board and other items from Larry Cockrin and constructed two sensors and purchased several vertical and horizontal sensors off ebay. I have not completed the sensors and my interests have moved on. I have been a amateur radio operator for may years and have been inactive for the past ten or so years. I am planning to get back into ham radio again and wish to sell all the seismic equipment that I have. If you know any one who might be interested my phone number is 208-722-7069. Thank you. Peter J. La Plante W7SOV. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Seislog From: "Steve Shufflebotham" Cellectronic@............. Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 17:58:40 +0100 Hi Everyone, Is anybody out there using "Mauro Mariotti, SADC" interface in = conjunction with "Seislog" ? I am experimenting with this setup and have an error message "Data has = been lost" this message just rolling up the screen, Everything else = seems to work ok, events detected and stopped etc but the events are = dumped. Many thanks in advance for any help. Steve
Hi Everyone,
Is anybody out there using "Mauro = Mariotti, SADC"=20 interface in conjunction with "Seislog" ?
I am experimenting with this setup and = have an=20 error message "Data has been lost" this message just rolling up the = screen,=20 Everything else seems to work ok, events detected and stopped etc but = the events=20 are dumped.
Many thanks in advance for any = help.
Steve
Subject: Re: Seislog From: Angel sismos@.............. Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 21:31:09 +0000

Hello Steve,


Seislog expects to get an exact number of samples in a one second package, let's say 50.  The SARA digitizer card mostly put out 50 but now and then maybe 49 or 51.  Seislog (for windows) throws out the packets that don't have the exact sample rate.  So what can you do?????


You can use the SARA acquisition software SeismowinPro.  You can use the Seislog for Linux which is smarter than the Seislog for windows.  It does not have the fancy GUI that other have but then it works real well.  You can use SeisComP from GFZ also for linux. 


Seismowin will make PSN, GSE and Seisan files it also has a LISS server so you can connect with earthworm systems. And you can use the Seisgram2k to look at the traces. 


Well I ramble, there are many options.


If I can help just write a note.


Angel


Wednesday, April 18, 2007, 4:58:40 PM, you wrote:


>

Hi Everyone,

Is anybody out there using "Mauro Mariotti, SADC" interface in conjunction with "Seislog" ?

I am experimenting with this setup and have an error message "Data has been lost" this message just rolling up the screen, Everything else seems to work ok, events detected and stopped etc but the events are dumped.

Many thanks in advance for any help.

Steve 





-- 

Best regards,

 Angel

Subject: Microquakes From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 22:01:46 +0000 Hi all I have an access to a station located in Mosfellsb=E6 near Reykjav=EDk (I d= o not own it!). This station is located close to all the major active areas in south Iceland. SISZ is not far off and it is close to Reykjanes earthquakes areas and volcanoes. Also is a good chance of recording actitive in Myrdalsjokull volcano and Hekla volcano and other volcanoes that are close to SISZ. >From 16th today there has been microquakes close to the station. Most of those earthquakes have the size mag 0.42 to mag 1.4. At the range of 1km to 24 km. The smallest earthquakes and those how are closest to the station appear good on the station plot I that I currently have on my webpage. It is really intresting to see how the small earthquakes appears on this station. But the station is currently set on low gain (200). But it is going to increased in the end of this week I hope, but then I hopefully can record small earthquakes at bigger distance. The closest earthqauke that this station has recored was so close that p and s time diffrence is only 00.2 sec. Regards. --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann http://www.jonfr.com http://www.simnet.is/jonfr500/earthquake/ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: whats up! From: "swollard" swollard@.......... Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 18:38:12 -0400 Whats up with these e-mails. I have been getting these e-mails from = people I don'nt even know, about some kind of product. Please stop = sending these e-mails. ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Angel=20 To: Steve Shufflebotham=20 Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 5:31 PM Subject: Re: Seislog Hello Steve, Seislog expects to get an exact number of samples in a one second = package, let's say 50. The SARA digitizer card mostly put out 50 but = now and then maybe 49 or 51. Seislog (for windows) throws out the = packets that don't have the exact sample rate. So what can you do????? You can use the SARA acquisition software SeismowinPro. You can use = the Seislog for Linux which is smarter than the Seislog for windows. It = does not have the fancy GUI that other have but then it works real well. = You can use SeisComP from GFZ also for linux.=20 Seismowin will make PSN, GSE and Seisan files it also has a LISS = server so you can connect with earthworm systems. And you can use the = Seisgram2k to look at the traces.=20 Well I ramble, there are many options. If I can help just write a note. Angel Wednesday, April 18, 2007, 4:58:40 PM, you wrote: > Hi Everyone, Is anybody out there using "Mauro Mariotti, SADC" interface in = conjunction with "Seislog" ? I am experimenting with this setup and have an error message = "Data has been lost" this message just rolling up the screen, Everything = else seems to work ok, events detected and stopped etc but the events = are dumped. Many thanks in advance for any help. Steve=20 =20 --=20 Best regards, Angel
Whats up with these e-mails. I have = been getting=20 these e-mails from people I don'nt even know, about some kind of = product. Please=20 stop sending these e-mails.
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Angel=20
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 = 5:31=20 PM
Subject: Re: Seislog

Hello Steve,


Seislog expects to get an exact number of samples in a one second = package,=20 let's say 50.  The SARA digitizer card mostly put out 50 but now = and then=20 maybe 49 or 51.  Seislog (for windows) throws out the packets = that don't=20 have the exact sample rate.  So what can you do?????


You can use the SARA acquisition software SeismowinPro.  You = can use=20 the Seislog for Linux which is smarter than the Seislog for windows. =  It=20 does not have the fancy GUI that other have but then it works real = well.=20  You can use SeisComP from GFZ also for linux. 


Seismowin will make PSN, GSE and Seisan files it also has a LISS = server so=20 you can connect with earthworm systems. And you can use the Seisgram2k = to look=20 at the traces. 


Well I ramble, there are many options.


If I can help just write a note.


Angel


Wednesday, April 18, 2007, 4:58:40 PM, you wrote:


>

Hi Everyone,

Is anybody out there using "Mauro = Mariotti, SADC"=20 interface in conjunction with "Seislog" ?

I am experimenting with this setup and = have an=20 error message "Data has been lost" this message just rolling up = the=20 screen, Everything else seems to work ok, events detected and = stopped=20 etc but the events are dumped.

Many thanks in advance for any = help.

Steve 





-- 

Best regards,

 Angel

Subject: Re: whats up! From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2007 23:16:35 +0000 On Wed, 2007-04-18 at 18:38 -0400, swollard wrote: > Whats up with these e-mails. I have been getting these e-mails from > people I don'nt even know, about some kind of product. Please stop > sending these e-mails. Hi Please leave the PSN list if you have not registerd on it. You can do so here, http://seismicnet.com/maillist.html Regards. --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann http://www.jonfr.com http://www.simnet.is/jonfr500/earthquake/ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Predictions From: "tchannel" tchannel@.............. Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 16:24:41 -0600 Hi Folks, Just curious about the subject of Earthquake Predictions. = We all can predict earthquakes, if we keep the "when" and "where" = nonspecific. But on a serious note, are there any scientific tools = used? Do the phases of the moon and the tides play a part? I have = asked this question to several people and received just as many = opinions. Thanks, Ted
Hi Folks,  Just curious about the = subject of=20 Earthquake Predictions.   We all can predict earthquakes, if = we keep=20 the "when" and "where" nonspecific.   But on a serious = note, are=20 there any scientific tools used?   Do the phases of the moon = and the=20 tides play a part?   I have asked this question to several = people and=20 received just as many opinions.
 
Thanks, Ted
Subject: Re: updates and additions From: Dave Nelson davenn@............... Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 11:04:17 +1000 Hi Gang :) Greetings from drought stricken Australia. Plans are afoot for a mass migration to New Zealand and USA ;) . Seriously tho ... its getting really bad here, as water supplies dry up for farms and cities alike. Sydney's water reserves are in the mid 30's % and Melbourne is somewhere ~ 15%. Back to the PSN .... thanks to those that have responded Pete Rowe ... dang mate dunno why you have been left off the list for so long thanks for the info :) John Lahr ... likewise. I have just put a link direct to your homepage 1999 seems so long ago when i got to visit you and the other guys in Golden, CO. at the NEIC HQ Dave Wolny ... Time flies doesnt it :) thanks buddy Michael Kimzey ... a new addition to the PSN, great to hear from you and welcome. Roger Sparks ... and how did you also get missed out in the early days of setting up the database and maps ... better late than never :) tnx mate There are several names of people that I see in the e-mail from time to time that I know are not on the map. Maybe they would like to get in touch with me at some stage and let me kow what gear they are running. Finally, dont forget, if you havent already, to update your bookmarks with my correct homepage address. main page = www.sydneystormcity.com or to get direct to the maps www.sydneystormcity.com/map.htm cheers Dave N Sydney Oz __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Predictions From: "Dave \(Santa Dave\)" kc6old@............. Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 19:16:58 -0700 (PDT) Back in the late 80s there was an "ham" (amateur radio) net which met and this group of hams did a whole bunch of record keeping of things like well head hight, lost dogs (via newspaper ads) Earthquake logging, and other "possables" . after more "man" hours than you can imagine the only correlation I ever heard of was one man logged EVERY known earthquake versus the position of the moon -- and found a Slight tendancy towards quakes in the northern hemisphere when the moon was high in the southern hemishere. This group was on two metters and was known as the PUBLIC SIESMIC NET. I only know of two people who were involved in that. Dave, Kc6old tchannel wrote: Hi Folks, Just curious about the subject of Earthquake Predictions. We all can predict earthquakes, if we keep the "when" and "where" nonspecific. But on a serious note, are there any scientific tools used? Do the phases of the moon and the tides play a part? I have asked this question to several people and received just as many opinions. Thanks, Ted
Back in the late 80s there was an "ham" (amateur radio) net which met and this group of hams did a whole bunch of record keeping of things like well head hight, lost dogs (via newspaper ads) Earthquake logging, and other "possables" . after more "man" hours than you can imagine the only correlation I ever heard of was one man logged EVERY known earthquake versus the position of the moon -- and found a Slight tendancy towards quakes in the northern hemisphere when the moon was high in the southern hemishere.
This group was on two metters and was known as the PUBLIC SIESMIC NET.
I only know of two people who were involved in that.
Dave, Kc6old

tchannel <tchannel@..............> wrote:
Hi Folks,  Just curious about the subject of Earthquake Predictions.   We all can predict earthquakes, if we keep the "when" and "where" nonspecific.   But on a serious note, are there any scientific tools used?   Do the phases of the moon and the tides play a part?   I have asked this question to several people and received just as many opinions.
 
Thanks, Ted

Subject: Re: Predictions From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 23:23:04 EDT In a message dated 2007/04/20, tchannel@.............. writes: > Just curious about the subject of Earthquake Predictions. But on a serious > note, are there any scientific tools used? Do the phases of the moon and the > tides play a part? I have asked this question to several people and received > just as many opinions. Hi Ted, Type Earthquake Prediction into Google? See http://www.nature.com/nature/debates/earthquake/equake_frameset.html Short answer is that we don't know. Strong quakes may be associated with parts of the tide cycle. The question is which cycle? The local background noise may decrease before a large quake. There may be physical movement before shallower quakes, but you are unlikely to get much observable effect at the surface if the rupture is 100 km down. About 1/3 of quakes show precursor quakes. There may be a few cycles of very long period precursor. There may be changes in the water table, changes in Radon emission, electric / RF field noise, animals seem to be able to sense 'something'..... One thing is certain. If you say we will never be able to predict quakes and no funds to experiment are allocated, we WON'T develop the / any ability!! Even if we could only get timely warning for a few quake locations / depths, the benefits could be very significant. A lot of the severe quakes are associated with subduction zones, like those off the west coast of the Americas, but the interval may be hundreds of years. Regards, Chris Chapman In a me= ssage dated 2007/04/20, tchannel@.............. writes:

Just curious about the subject=20= of Earthquake Predictions. But on a serious note, are there any scientific t= ools used? Do the phases of the moon and the tides play a part? I have asked= this question to several people and received just as many opinions.<= FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"= SIZE=3D3 PTSIZE=3D12 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">

Hi Ted,

       Type Earthquake Prediction into Google?=
       See http://www.nature.com/nature/debate= s/earthquake/equake_frameset.html

       Short answer is that we don't know. Str= ong quakes may be associated with parts of the tide cycle. The question is w= hich cycle? The local background noise may decrease before a large quake. Th= ere may be physical movement before shallower quakes, but you are unlikely t= o get much observable effect at the surface if the rupture is 100 km down. A= bout 1/3 of quakes show precursor quakes. There may be a few cycles of very=20= long period precursor. There may be changes in the water table, changes in R= adon emission, electric / RF field noise, animals seem to be able to sense '= something'.....
       One thing is certain. If you say we wil= l never be able to predict quakes and no funds to experiment are allocated,=20= we WON'T develop the / any ability!! Even if we could only get timely warnin= g for a few quake locations / depths, the benefits could be very significant= .. A lot of the severe quakes are associated with subduction zones, like thos= e off the west coast of the Americas, but the interval may be hundreds of ye= ars.

       Regards,

       Chris Chapman Subject: Re: Predictions From: Stephen & Kathy skmort@............ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 23:12:44 -0700 FYI,, Following this little introduction, is a simple study I did a few years ago!! Since then I have tried to correlate the events to Solid Earth Tide,,, so far I have found no correlation!! My conclusion at this point is that I think there may be a moon and or sun tide connection, but like trying to predict the position in the bending cycle where a wire will finally break, that you bend with your fingers, there appears to be a similar problem with trying to tie a tidal phase point to quakes???? It simply breaks when it is ready, no matter where in the tidal cycle of bending it happens to be???? The complexity of water tides may also contribute to the problem for events that happen in the vicinity of ocean tides????? The reason I feel that there may be a phase connection, becomes clear from the following study where we see that the time of the new moon, where we have the greatest tidal motion, also favors the greatest number of quakes?????? I am open to correction, other studies, other data, and or other conclusions!!!! Stephen PSN Station #55 Subject: Large quakes (mag. 8 and above) and their relationship to Moon phases, using data found over the web at the following links: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_earthquakes http://www.fourmilab.ch/cgi-bin/uncgi/Earth/action?opt=-m&img=Moon.evif Using the top link to find quake times and mag., then using the bottom link to compare them to moon phases, I found 38 quakes of mag. 8 or greater since 1556, of which I used 35 because the first three did not have times listed. Where local times were listed I converted them to UTC time for compatibility with the Moon phase link. After finding the data, the next problem is determining how to illustrate it with statistics! Statistics can be used in many ways to manipulate data! Do we use only one or two days around the new and full moon and compare that to the total, or should we divide it into approx. 4 equal quadrants? For my simple analysis I will use 4 quadrants. The moon link above uses approx. 29.4 days for a complete cycle, so I will use approx. 7.35 days per quadrant, which when related to the phases works out to about the following: New moon quadrant equals 0 to 15 % Full moon quadrant equals 85 to 100 % first and last quarter quadrant equals 16 to 86 % When we sort the 35 phase data into their quadrants we get the following: Quakes during New moon = 15 Quakes during Full moon = 7 Quakes during First & Last quarter = 13 When we combine the New and Full quarters to compare with First and Last quarters we get: Quakes during New & Full moon = 22 Conclusion: The New moon quadrant favors the Full moon quadrant by a little more than double! The combined New and Full quadrants favor the First and Last quadrants by not quite double! Interesting!!!!! I was led to believe that there was no statistical correlation between quakes and Moon phases??? Perhaps if we added the mag. 6 and 7 quakes we would find different conclusions,,,, that is for someone else to do!!! List of mag. 8 quakes or greater,, With percent of Moon Phase listed 0% = New Moon, 100% = Full Moon, 50% = either First or Last Quarter Please forgive any TYPOs # Moon Year Mo. Day UTC Place Approx. Phase Time Mag. 1 ??% 1556 Jan. 23 ?? China 8 2 ??% 1668 Aug. 17 ?? Turkey 8 3 ??% 1700 Jan. 26 ?? Vancouver 9 ************************************************ 4 10% 1755 Nov. 1 10:16 Portugal 8.7 5 0% 1811 Dec. 16 08:00 Missouri 8.1 6 33% 1812 Feb. 7 09:45 Missouri 8 7 43% 1855 Jan. 24 10:11 New Zealand 8 8 20% 1891 Oct. 27 21:38 Japan 8 9 21% 1896 Jun. 15 19:32 Japan 8.5 10 91% 1897 Jun. 12 11:06 India 8.3 11 29% 1899 Sep. 10 21:41 Alaska 8 12 8% 1905 Jul. 5 09:40 Mongolia 8.4 13 41% 1906 Jan. 31 15:36 Colombia 8.8 14 9% 1906 Aug. 17 00:40 Chile 8.2 15 29% 1920 Dec. 16 12:05 China 8.6 16 34% 1933 Mar. 2 17:31 Japan 8.4 17 0% 1934 Jan. 15 08:43 India 8.1 18 88% 1938 Nov. 10 20:18 Alaska 8.2 19 54% 1944 Dec. 7 04:35 Japan 8.1 20 48% 1946 Aug. 4 17:51 Dom. Repub. 8.0 21 6% 1946 Dec. 20 19:19 Japan 8.1 22 5% 1949 Aug. 22 04:01 Q. Charlo. Is. 8.1 23 4% 1950 Aug. 15 14:09 Tibet 8.6 24 91% 1952 Nov. 4 16:58 Russia 9 25 51% 1957 Mar. 9 14:22 Alaska 9.1 26 90% 1957 Dec. 4 03:37 Mongolia 8.1 27 6% 1960 May 22 19:11 Chile 9.5 28 99% 1964 Mar. 28 03:36 Alaska 9.2 29 5% 1965 Feb. 4 05:01 Alaska 8.7 30 2% 1970 Jul. 31 17.08 Colombia 8 31 28% 1985 Sep. 19 13:17 Mexico 8 32 0% 1986 May 7 22:47 Alaska 8 33 0% 1994 Jun. 9 00:33 Bolivia 8.2 34 76% 2000 Nov. 16 04:54 New Ireland 8 35 7% 2001 Jun. 23 20:33 Peru 8.4 36 0% 2003 Sep. 25 19:50 Japan 8.3 37 91% 2004 Dec. 23 14:59 Macquarie 8.1 38 99% 2004 Dec. 26 00:59 Sumatra 9.0 tchannel wrote: > Hi Folks, Just curious about the subject of Earthquake Predictions. > We all can predict earthquakes, if we keep the "when" and "where" > nonspecific. But on a serious note, are there any scientific tools > used? Do the phases of the moon and the tides play a part? I have > asked this question to several people and received just as many opinions. > > Thanks, Ted FYI,,  Following this little introduction, is a simple study I did a few years ago!!   Since then I have tried to correlate the events to Solid Earth Tide,,,   so far I have found no correlation!!    My conclusion at this point is that I think there may be a moon and or sun tide connection, but like trying to predict the position in the bending cycle where a wire will finally break, that you bend with your fingers, there appears to be a similar problem with trying to tie a tidal phase point to quakes????  It simply breaks when it is ready, no matter where in the tidal cycle of bending it happens to be????   The complexity of water tides may also contribute to the problem for events that happen in the vicinity of ocean tides?????   The reason I feel that there may be a phase connection, becomes clear from the following study where we see that the time of the new moon, where we have the greatest tidal motion, also favors the greatest number of quakes??????    I am open to correction, other studies, other data, and or other conclusions!!!!
  Stephen
  PSN Station #55


Subject:
Large quakes (mag. 8 and above) and their relationship to Moon phases, using data found over the web at the following links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_earthquakes

http://www.fourmilab.ch/cgi-bin/uncgi/Earth/action?opt=-m&img=Moon.evif

Using the top link to find quake times and mag., then using the bottom link to compare them to moon phases, I found 38 quakes of mag. 8 or greater since 1556, of which I used 35 because the first three did not have times listed.  Where local times were listed I converted them to UTC time for compatibility with the Moon phase link.

After finding the data, the next problem is determining how to illustrate it with statistics!  Statistics can be used in many ways to manipulate data!   Do we use only one or two days around the new and full moon and compare that to the total, or should we divide it into approx. 4 equal quadrants?   For my simple analysis I will use 4 quadrants.   The moon link above uses approx. 29.4 days for a complete cycle, so I will use approx. 7.35 days per quadrant, which when related to the phases works out to about the following:
New moon quadrant equals                  0 to 15 %
Full moon quadrant equals                 85 to 100 %
first and last quarter quadrant equals    16 to 86 %
When we sort the 35 phase data into their quadrants we get the following:
Quakes during New moon               =   15
Quakes during Full moon              =    7
Quakes during First & Last quarter   =   13
When we combine the New and Full quarters to compare with First and Last quarters we get:
Quakes during New & Full moon        =   22
Conclusion:
The New moon quadrant favors the Full moon quadrant by a little more than double!
The combined New and Full quadrants favor the First and Last quadrants by not quite double!
Interesting!!!!!    I was led to believe that there was no statistical correlation between quakes and Moon phases???     Perhaps if we added the mag. 6 and 7 quakes we would find different conclusions,,,,   that is for someone else to do!!!

List of mag. 8 quakes or greater,,   With percent of Moon Phase listed
0% = New Moon,  100% = Full Moon,    50% = either First or Last Quarter
                        Please forgive any TYPOs

 #   Moon  Year    Mo.  Day    UTC      Place        Approx.
     Phase                     Time                    Mag.
 1    ??%   1556  Jan.   23     ??      China           8
 2    ??%   1668  Aug.   17     ??      Turkey          8
 3    ??%   1700  Jan.   26     ??      Vancouver       9
************************************************
 4    10%   1755   Nov.   1    10:16    Portugal        8.7
 5     0%   1811   Dec.  16    08:00    Missouri        8.1
 6    33%   1812   Feb.   7    09:45    Missouri        8
 7    43%   1855   Jan.  24    10:11    New Zealand     8
 8    20%   1891   Oct.  27    21:38    Japan           8
 9    21%   1896   Jun.  15    19:32    Japan           8.5
10    91%   1897   Jun.  12    11:06    India           8.3
11    29%   1899   Sep.  10    21:41    Alaska          8
12     8%   1905   Jul.   5    09:40    Mongolia        8.4
13    41%   1906   Jan.  31    15:36    Colombia        8.8
14     9%   1906   Aug.  17    00:40    Chile           8.2
15    29%   1920   Dec.  16    12:05    China           8.6
16    34%   1933   Mar.   2    17:31    Japan           8.4
17     0%   1934   Jan.  15    08:43    India           8.1
18    88%   1938   Nov.  10    20:18    Alaska          8.2
19    54%   1944   Dec.   7    04:35    Japan           8.1
20    48%   1946   Aug.   4    17:51    Dom. Repub.     8.0
21     6%   1946   Dec.  20    19:19    Japan           8.1
22     5%   1949   Aug.  22    04:01    Q. Charlo. Is.  8.1
23     4%   1950   Aug.  15    14:09    Tibet           8.6
24    91%   1952   Nov.   4    16:58    Russia          9
25    51%   1957   Mar.   9    14:22    Alaska          9.1
26    90%   1957   Dec.   4    03:37    Mongolia        8.1
27     6%   1960   May   22    19:11    Chile           9.5
28    99%   1964   Mar.  28    03:36    Alaska          9.2
29     5%   1965   Feb.   4    05:01    Alaska          8.7
30     2%   1970   Jul.  31    17.08    Colombia        8
31    28%   1985   Sep.  19    13:17    Mexico          8
32     0%   1986   May    7    22:47    Alaska          8
33     0%   1994   Jun.   9    00:33    Bolivia         8.2
34    76%   2000   Nov.  16    04:54    New Ireland     8
35     7%   2001   Jun.  23    20:33    Peru            8.4
36     0%   2003   Sep.  25    19:50    Japan           8.3
37    91%   2004   Dec.  23    14:59    Macquarie       8.1
38    99%   2004   Dec.  26    00:59    Sumatra         9.0


tchannel wrote:
Hi Folks,  Just curious about the subject of Earthquake Predictions.   We all can predict earthquakes, if we keep the "when" and "where" nonspecific.   But on a serious note, are there any scientific tools used?   Do the phases of the moon and the tides play a part?   I have asked this question to several people and received just as many opinions.
 
Thanks, Ted
Subject: Re: Predictions From: shammon1@............. Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 02:14:27 -0400 (EDT)

Chris makes a lot of good points about predictions and I ag= ree with him. The main point in my mind is made with the understanding that= if you live in a zone with natural disasters, you need to understand the r= isks with your choice of locations and prepare for the possibilities that a= re associated with it.

On a personal note, I experienced another side effect assoc= iated with predictions following the Loma P event in 1989. I lived in South= San Jose and a young nine year old came to my front door because a guy nam= e Jack (I don=E2=80=99t remember his last name) had been on the local news = claiming he could predict earthquakes and in fact had predicted a big one i= n a few week. She was scared out of her wits and knowing I had seismographs= running at a local elementary school wanted to know if Jack=E2=80=99s pred= ictions were true.

What are the issues at hand?  1) Jack knows what he was talking about and we should all = prepare for the great event. 2) We should continue to prepare for the event= uality of a great event. 3) We should ignore the fact that a great event co= uld occur at any time. I=E2= =80=99ll leave the answer up to you. I spent a few hours talking to th= is child and from the experence gained a better understanding of the impact= it can have on people.

 

Regards, Steve Hammond

PSN San Jose, Aptos, CA


-----Original Message-----
From: ChrisAtUpw@.......
= Sent: Apr 20, 2007 8:23 PM
To: psn-l@..............
Subject: Re: Pr= edictions

In a message dated 2007/04/20, tchannel@.............. w= rites:

Just curious about the subj= ect of Earthquake Predictions. But on a serious note, are there any scienti= fic tools used? Do the phases of the moon and the tides play a part? I have= asked this question to several people and received just as many opinions.<= /FONT>

Hi Ted,

       Type E= arthquake Prediction into Google?
       S= ee http://www.nature.com/nature/debates/earthquake/equake_frameset.html
=
       Short answer is that we don't know= .. Strong quakes may be associated with parts of the tide cycle. The questio= n is which cycle? The local background noise may decrease before a large qu= ake. There may be physical movement before shallower quakes, but you are un= likely to get much observable effect at the surface if the rupture is 100 k= m down. About 1/3 of quakes show precursor quakes. There may be a few cycle= s of very long period precursor. There may be changes in the water table, c= hanges in Radon emission, electric / RF field noise, animals seem to be abl= e to sense 'something'.....
       One th= ing is certain. If you say we will never be able to predict quakes and no f= unds to experiment are allocated, we WON'T develop the / any ability!! Even= if we could only get timely warning for a few quake locations / depths, th= e benefits could be very significant. A lot of the severe quakes are associ= ated with subduction zones, like those off the west coast of the Americas, = but the interval may be hundreds of years.

    &= nbsp;  Regards,

       Chris Chap= man
Subject: Re: Predictions From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 08:22:32 EDT In a message dated 2007/04/20, tchannel@.............. writes: > Just curious about the subject of Earthquake Predictions. But on a serious > note, are there any scientific tools used? Hi Ted, One application may be practical. Assuming you have had a severe quake and are trying to recover the injured from damaged buildings etc, if you instrument the region with radio linked sensors, you can pick up the fast P waves of aftershocks, analyse them and get a few seconds warning before the rest of the waves arrive. On the 'be prepared' front, during WWII many people in the UK had a steel table in the living room to provide protection from falling masonry. You could sleep under it at night or dive for cover. It does take a building a few seconds to collapse, so similar provisions in earthquake areas where the existing buildings have poor quake resistance, could save lives. It would also do the flagging steel industries no harm at all.....! Regards, Chris Chapman In a me= ssage dated 2007/04/20, tchannel@.............. writes:

Just curious about the subject=20= of Earthquake Predictions. But on a serious note, are there any scientific t= ools used?


Hi Ted,

       One application may be practical. Assum= ing you have had a severe quake and are trying to recover the injured from d= amaged buildings etc, if you instrument the region with radio linked sensors= , you can pick up the fast P waves of aftershocks, analyse them and get a fe= w seconds warning before the rest of the waves arrive.

       On the 'be prepared' front, during WWII= many people in the UK had a steel table in the living room to provide prote= ction from falling masonry. You could sleep under it at night or dive for co= ver. It does take a building a few seconds to collapse, so similar provision= s in earthquake areas where the existing buildings have poor quake resistanc= e, could save lives. It would also do the flagging steel industries no harm=20= at all.....!

       Regards,

       Chris Chapman Subject: Time of Quake?? From: "Paul Cianciolo" Paulc@........ Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 09:23:17 -0400 Hello Folks, In the past many of you on the list have been extremely helpful. For the past month I have been working on a horizontal pendulum sensor and I am going through my maiden voyage with it. The clock is accurate to within 10 seconds, I am using the Amaseis program, and a 12 bit ADC. I would like to try and compare events elsewhere in the world/ country to my sensor. At this site I can see various locations. The question. If I know in when in UTC an event occurred, and where.. how do I convert that to a UTC time when the event would arrive at my location, if ever. In other words how ho long does it take to get here?? I am on the Northwest corner of Connecticut. Realize this is a very broad question, and I am new to this . Thank you Paul Cianciolo W1VLF
Hello=20 Folks,
 
In the=20 past many of you on the list have been extremely helpful. =
For=20 the past month I have been working on a horizontal pendulum sensor and I = am=20 going through my maiden voyage with it.
 
The=20 clock is accurate to within 10 seconds, I am using the Amaseis program, = and a 12=20 bit ADC.
 
I=20 would like to try and compare events elsewhere in the world/ country to = my=20 sensor.
At=20 this site I can see various locations.
 
The=20 question.
 
If I know in  when in UTC an event = occurred, and=20 where.. how do I convert that to a UTC time when the event would = arrive at my location, if=20 ever.
&nbs= p;
In other = words how ho=20 long does it take to get = here??
&nbs= p;
I am on = the Northwest=20 corner of Connecticut.  =
&nbs= p;
Realize = this is a very=20 broad question, and I am new to this=20 ..
&nbs= p;
Thank = you=20
&nbs= p;
Paul=20 Cianciolo
W1VLF
&nbs= p;
&nbs= p;
Subject: Re: Time of Quake?? From: "Thomas Dick" dickthomas01@............. Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 08:29:21 -0500 You can calculate arrival time using = http://neic.usgs.gov/neis/travel_times/=20
 
 
You = can calculate=20 arrival time using http://neic.usgs.gov/nei= s/travel_times/ 
=
&nbs= p;
Subject: RE: Time of Quake?? From: "Paul Cianciolo" Paulc@........ Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 09:50:53 -0400 Tom, Thank you, How could I have missed that??? I need to run some calculations now PauLC -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@................. Behalf Of Thomas Dick Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 9:29 AM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: Time of Quake?? You can calculate arrival time using http://neic.usgs.gov/neis/travel_times/
Tom,
 
Thank=20 you, 
How=20 could I have missed that???
 
I need=20 to run some calculations now
 
PauLC
 
-----Original Message-----
From: = psn-l-request@................. [mailto:psn-l-request@...............On Behalf Of Thomas=20 Dick
Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 9:29 AM
To:=20 psn-l@..............
Subject: Re: Time of=20 Quake??

 
 
You = can calculate=20 arrival time using http://neic.usgs.gov/nei= s/travel_times/ 
=
&nbs= p;
Subject: RE: Time of Quake?? From: "Paul Cianciolo" Paulc@........ Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 09:57:39 -0400 I am at Lat N41.78 Long W73.00 So to check me... would this event DATE-(UTC)-TIME LAT LON DEPTH MAG Q COMMENTS 2007/04/21 07:12:47 3.55S 151.31E 401.5 6.3 US: NEW IRELAND REGION, P.N. delta azimuth (degrees clockwise from north) (deg) eq-to-station station-to-eq 125.10 39.7 301.5 travel arrival time # code time(s) dy hr mn sec 1 Pdiff 891.60 0 7 27 38 2 PKPdf 1093.09 0 7 31 0 3 PKiKP 1093.63 0 7 31 0 4 LQ 3175.16 0 8 5 42 5 LR 3523.98 0 8 11 30 Arrive at roughly 14:40 UTC?? Which has not occurred yet??? PauLC -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@................. Behalf Of Thomas Dick Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 9:29 AM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: Time of Quake?? You can calculate arrival time using http://neic.usgs.gov/neis/travel_times/
I am=20 at  Lat N41.78    Long  = W73.00
 
So to=20 check me... would this event 
 
 DATE-(UTC)-TIME   =20 LAT    LON     DEPTH MAG  =20 Q   COMMENTS
  2007/04/21 07:12:47   3.55S = 151.31E=20 401.5 6.3      US: NEW IRELAND REGION, = P.N.
 =20
delta   azimuth (degrees clockwise from north)
=20 (deg)      = eq-to-station    =20 station-to-eq
125.10        &n= bsp; =20 39.7           &nb= sp;=20 301.5

          =       =20 travel   arrival time
    # =20 code      time(s)  dy hr mn=20 sec
    1  Pdiff     =20 891.60   0  7 27 38
    2 =20 PKPdf     1093.09   0  7 31 =20 0
    3  PKiKP    =20 1093.63   0  7 31  0
    4 =20 LQ        3175.16   0  = 8 =20 5 42
    5  = LR       =20 3523.98   0  8 11 30
 
 
Arrive=20 at  roughly 14:40 UTC??
 
Which=20 has not occurred yet???
 
PauLC
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: = psn-l-request@................. [mailto:psn-l-request@...............On Behalf Of Thomas=20 Dick
Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 9:29 AM
To:=20 psn-l@..............
Subject: Re: Time of=20 Quake??

 
 
You = can calculate=20 arrival time using http://neic.usgs.gov/nei= s/travel_times/ 
=
&nbs= p;
Subject: Re: Time of Quake?? From: Stephen & Kathy skmort@............ Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 08:03:48 -0700 Your travel times are given in UTC, so, your answer is 07:27:38 UTC (I think you tried to add the arrival time to the start time??) it took about 891.60 seconds for the P wave to arrive at your location!! 07:12:47 UTC plus 891.60s = approx. 07:27:38 UTC ,,,, 891.6/60 = 14.86 minutes,,, for rough distance, 69*125.1 = approx. 8632 miles,, or 111.12 * 125.1 = approx. 13901.112 km!! Stephen PSN Station #55 Paul Cianciolo wrote: > I am at Lat N41.78 Long W73.00 > > So to check me... would this event > > DATE-(UTC)-TIME LAT LON DEPTH MAG Q COMMENTS > 2007/04/21 07:12:47 3.55S 151.31E 401.5 6.3 US: NEW IRELAND > REGION, P.N. > > delta azimuth (degrees clockwise from north) > (deg) eq-to-station station-to-eq > 125.10 39.7 301.5 > > travel arrival time > # code time(s) dy hr mn sec > 1 Pdiff 891.60 0 7 27 38 > 2 PKPdf 1093.09 0 7 31 0 > 3 PKiKP 1093.63 0 7 31 0 > 4 LQ 3175.16 0 8 5 42 > 5 LR 3523.98 0 8 11 30 > > > Arrive at roughly 14:40 UTC?? > > Which has not occurred yet??? > > PauLC > > > > > -----Original Message----- > *From:* psn-l-request@.............. > [mailto:psn-l-request@.................. Behalf Of *Thomas Dick > *Sent:* Saturday, April 21, 2007 9:29 AM > *To:* psn-l@.............. > *Subject:* Re: Time of Quake?? > > > > > You can calculate arrival time using > http://neic.usgs.gov/neis/travel_times/ > > Your travel times are given in UTC, so, your answer is 07:27:38 UTC  (I think you tried to add the arrival time to the start time??)    it took about 891.60 seconds for the P wave to arrive at your location!!  07:12:47 UTC plus 891.60s = approx. 07:27:38 UTC ,,,,   891.6/60 = 14.86 minutes,,,  for rough distance, 69*125.1 = approx. 8632 miles,,  or 111.12 * 125.1 = approx. 13901.112 km!!
  Stephen
  PSN Station #55

Paul Cianciolo wrote:
I am at  Lat N41.78    Long  W73.00
 
So to check me... would this event 
 
 DATE-(UTC)-TIME    LAT    LON     DEPTH MAG   Q   COMMENTS
  2007/04/21 07:12:47   3.55S 151.31E 401.5 6.3      US: NEW IRELAND REGION, P.N.
 
delta   azimuth (degrees clockwise from north)
(deg)      eq-to-station     station-to-eq
125.10           39.7             301.5

                 travel   arrival time
    #  code      time(s)  dy hr mn sec
    1  Pdiff      891.60   0  7 27 38
    2  PKPdf     1093.09   0  7 31  0
    3  PKiKP     1093.63   0  7 31  0
    4  LQ        3175.16   0  8  5 42
    5  LR        3523.98   0  8 11 30
 
 
Arrive at  roughly 14:40 UTC??
 
Which has not occurred yet???
 
PauLC
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@..............]On Behalf Of Thomas Dick
Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 9:29 AM
To: psn-l@..............
Subject: Re: Time of Quake??

 
 
You can calculate arrival time using http://neic.usgs.gov/neis/travel_times/ 
 
Subject: Re: Predictions From: "tchannel" tchannel@.............. Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 09:19:10 -0600 Stephen and Everyone, This is just great input....Stephen, Yes I sure = would like to see your study expanded to include M6 and M7's. I = printed you message. I wish I know something about Statistics. Thanks, Ted ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Stephen & Kathy=20 To: psn-l@................. Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 12:12 AM Subject: Re: Predictions FYI,, Following this little introduction, is a simple study I did a = few years ago!! Since then I have tried to correlate the events to = Solid Earth Tide,,, so far I have found no correlation!! My = conclusion at this point is that I think there may be a moon and or sun = tide connection, but like trying to predict the position in the bending = cycle where a wire will finally break, that you bend with your fingers, = there appears to be a similar problem with trying to tie a tidal phase = point to quakes???? It simply breaks when it is ready, no matter where = in the tidal cycle of bending it happens to be???? The complexity of = water tides may also contribute to the problem for events that happen in = the vicinity of ocean tides????? The reason I feel that there may be a = phase connection, becomes clear from the following study where we see = that the time of the new moon, where we have the greatest tidal motion, = also favors the greatest number of quakes?????? I am open to = correction, other studies, other data, and or other conclusions!!!! Stephen PSN Station #55 Subject: Large quakes (mag. 8 and above) and their relationship to Moon phases, = using data found over the web at the following links: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_earthquakes = http://www.fourmilab.ch/cgi-bin/uncgi/Earth/action?opt=3D-m&img=3DMoon.ev= if Using the top link to find quake times and mag., then using the bottom = link to compare them to moon phases, I found 38 quakes of mag. 8 or = greater since 1556, of which I used 35 because the first three did not = have times listed. Where local times were listed I converted them to = UTC time for compatibility with the Moon phase link. After finding the data, the next problem is determining how to = illustrate it with statistics! Statistics can be used in many ways to = manipulate data! Do we use only one or two days around the new and = full moon and compare that to the total, or should we divide it into = approx. 4 equal quadrants? For my simple analysis I will use 4 = quadrants. The moon link above uses approx. 29.4 days for a complete = cycle, so I will use approx. 7.35 days per quadrant, which when related = to the phases works out to about the following: New moon quadrant equals 0 to 15 % Full moon quadrant equals 85 to 100 % first and last quarter quadrant equals 16 to 86 % When we sort the 35 phase data into their quadrants we get the = following: Quakes during New moon =3D 15 Quakes during Full moon =3D 7 Quakes during First & Last quarter =3D 13 When we combine the New and Full quarters to compare with First and = Last quarters we get: Quakes during New & Full moon =3D 22 Conclusion: The New moon quadrant favors the Full moon quadrant by a little more = than double! The combined New and Full quadrants favor the First and Last quadrants = by not quite double! Interesting!!!!! I was led to believe that there was no statistical = correlation between quakes and Moon phases??? Perhaps if we added = the mag. 6 and 7 quakes we would find different conclusions,,,, that = is for someone else to do!!! List of mag. 8 quakes or greater,, With percent of Moon Phase listed 0% =3D New Moon, 100% =3D Full Moon, 50% =3D either First or Last = Quarter Please forgive any TYPOs=20 # Moon Year Mo. Day UTC Place Approx. Phase Time Mag. 1 ??% 1556 Jan. 23 ?? China 8 2 ??% 1668 Aug. 17 ?? Turkey 8 3 ??% 1700 Jan. 26 ?? Vancouver 9 ************************************************ 4 10% 1755 Nov. 1 10:16 Portugal 8.7 5 0% 1811 Dec. 16 08:00 Missouri 8.1 6 33% 1812 Feb. 7 09:45 Missouri 8 7 43% 1855 Jan. 24 10:11 New Zealand 8 8 20% 1891 Oct. 27 21:38 Japan 8 9 21% 1896 Jun. 15 19:32 Japan 8.5 10 91% 1897 Jun. 12 11:06 India 8.3 11 29% 1899 Sep. 10 21:41 Alaska 8 12 8% 1905 Jul. 5 09:40 Mongolia 8.4 13 41% 1906 Jan. 31 15:36 Colombia 8.8 14 9% 1906 Aug. 17 00:40 Chile 8.2 15 29% 1920 Dec. 16 12:05 China 8.6 16 34% 1933 Mar. 2 17:31 Japan 8.4 17 0% 1934 Jan. 15 08:43 India 8.1 18 88% 1938 Nov. 10 20:18 Alaska 8.2 19 54% 1944 Dec. 7 04:35 Japan 8.1 20 48% 1946 Aug. 4 17:51 Dom. Repub. 8.0 21 6% 1946 Dec. 20 19:19 Japan 8.1 22 5% 1949 Aug. 22 04:01 Q. Charlo. Is. 8.1 23 4% 1950 Aug. 15 14:09 Tibet 8.6 24 91% 1952 Nov. 4 16:58 Russia 9 25 51% 1957 Mar. 9 14:22 Alaska 9.1 26 90% 1957 Dec. 4 03:37 Mongolia 8.1 27 6% 1960 May 22 19:11 Chile 9.5 28 99% 1964 Mar. 28 03:36 Alaska 9.2 29 5% 1965 Feb. 4 05:01 Alaska 8.7 30 2% 1970 Jul. 31 17.08 Colombia 8 31 28% 1985 Sep. 19 13:17 Mexico 8 32 0% 1986 May 7 22:47 Alaska 8 33 0% 1994 Jun. 9 00:33 Bolivia 8.2 34 76% 2000 Nov. 16 04:54 New Ireland 8 35 7% 2001 Jun. 23 20:33 Peru 8.4 36 0% 2003 Sep. 25 19:50 Japan 8.3 37 91% 2004 Dec. 23 14:59 Macquarie 8.1 38 99% 2004 Dec. 26 00:59 Sumatra 9.0 tchannel wrote:=20 Hi Folks, Just curious about the subject of Earthquake Predictions. = We all can predict earthquakes, if we keep the "when" and "where" = nonspecific. But on a serious note, are there any scientific tools = used? Do the phases of the moon and the tides play a part? I have = asked this question to several people and received just as many = opinions. Thanks, Ted
Stephen and Everyone,  This is = just great=20 input....Stephen, Yes I sure would like to see your study expanded to = include M6=20 and M7's.   I printed you message.   I wish I know = something=20 about Statistics.
Thanks, Ted
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Stephen &=20 Kathy
Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 = 12:12=20 AM
Subject: Re: Predictions

FYI,,  Following this = little=20 introduction, is a simple study I did a few years ago!!   = Since then=20 I have tried to correlate the events to Solid Earth = Tide,,,   so far=20 I have found no correlation!!    My conclusion at this point = is that=20 I think there may be a moon and or sun tide connection, but like = trying to=20 predict the position in the bending cycle where a wire will finally = break,=20 that you bend with your fingers, there appears to be a similar problem = with=20 trying to tie a tidal phase point to quakes????  It simply breaks = when it=20 is ready, no matter where in the tidal cycle of bending it happens to = be????=20   The complexity of water tides may also contribute to the = problem for=20 events that happen in the vicinity of ocean tides?????   The = reason=20 I feel that there may be a phase connection, becomes clear from the = following=20 study where we see that the time of the new moon, where we have the = greatest=20 tidal motion, also favors the greatest number of=20 quakes??????    I am open to correction, other studies, = other=20 data, and or other conclusions!!!!
  Stephen
  PSN = Station=20 #55


Subject:
Large quakes (mag. 8 and = above) and=20 their relationship to Moon phases, using data found over the web at = the=20 following links:

http://en.wikip= edia.org/wiki/List_of_earthquakes

http://www.fourmilab.ch/cgi-bin/uncgi/Earth/action?opt=3D= -m&img=3DMoon.evif

Using=20 the top link to find quake times and mag., then using the bottom link = to=20 compare them to moon phases, I found 38 quakes of mag. 8 or greater = since=20 1556, of which I used 35 because the first three did not have times=20 listed.  Where local times were listed I converted them to UTC = time for=20 compatibility with the Moon phase link.

After finding the data, = the=20 next problem is determining how to illustrate it with = statistics! =20 Statistics can be used in many ways to manipulate data!   Do = we use=20 only one or two days around the new and full moon and compare that to = the=20 total, or should we divide it into approx. 4 equal = quadrants?   For=20 my simple analysis I will use 4 quadrants.   The moon link = above=20 uses approx. 29.4 days for a complete cycle, so I will use approx. = 7.35 days=20 per quadrant, which when related to the phases works out to about the=20 following:
New moon quadrant=20 = equals           &= nbsp;     =20 0 to 15 %
Full moon quadrant=20 = equals           &= nbsp;    =20 85 to 100 %
first and last quarter quadrant = equals    16 to=20 86 %
When we sort the 35 phase data into their quadrants we get the = following:
Quakes during New=20 = moon           &nb= sp;  =20 =3D   15
Quakes during Full=20 = moon           &nb= sp; =20 =3D    7
Quakes during First & Last = quarter  =20 =3D   13
When we combine the New and Full quarters to = compare with=20 First and Last quarters we get:
Quakes during New & Full=20 moon        =3D  =20 22
Conclusion:
The New moon quadrant favors the Full moon = quadrant by a=20 little more than double!
The combined New and Full quadrants favor = the=20 First and Last quadrants by not quite=20 double!
Interesting!!!!!    I was led to believe = that there=20 was no statistical correlation between quakes and Moon=20 phases???     Perhaps if we added the mag. 6 and 7 = quakes=20 we would find different conclusions,,,,   that is for = someone else=20 to do!!!

List of mag. 8 quakes or greater,,   With = percent of=20 Moon Phase listed
0% =3D New Moon,  100% =3D Full = Moon,   =20 50% =3D either First or Last=20 = Quarter
          &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;=20 Please forgive any TYPOs

 #   Moon =20 Year    Mo.  Day   =20 UTC     =20 Place       =20 Approx.
    =20 = Phase           &n= bsp;        =20 = Time           &nb= sp;       =20 Mag.
 1    ??%   1556  = Jan.  =20 23     ??     =20 China          =20 8
 2    ??%   1668  = Aug.  =20 17     ??     =20 Turkey         =20 8
 3    ??%   1700  = Jan.  =20 26     ??     =20 Vancouver      =20 = 9
************************************************
 4 &nb= sp; =20 10%   1755   Nov.   1   =20 10:16    = Portugal       =20 8.7
 5     0%   1811   = Dec.  16    08:00   =20 Missouri       =20 8.1
 6    33%   1812  =20 Feb.   7    09:45   =20 Missouri       =20 8
 7    43%   1855   = Jan. =20 24    10:11    New=20 Zealand     8
 8    = 20%  =20 1891   Oct.  27    = 21:38   =20 Japan          =20 8
 9    21%   1896   = Jun. =20 15    19:32   =20 Japan          =20 8.5
10    91%   1897   = Jun. =20 12    11:06   =20 India          =20 8.3
11    29%   1899   = Sep. =20 10    21:41   =20 Alaska         =20 8
12     8%   1905  =20 Jul.   5    09:40   =20 Mongolia        = 8.4
13   =20 41%   1906   Jan.  31   =20 15:36    = Colombia       =20 8.8
14     9%   1906   = Aug. =20 17    00:40   =20 Chile          =20 8.2
15    29%   1920   = Dec. =20 16    12:05    China=20          =20 8.6
16    34%   1933   = Mar.  =20 2    17:31   =20 Japan          =20 8.4
17     0%   1934   = Jan. =20 15    08:43   =20 India          =20 8.1
18    88%   1938   = Nov. =20 10    20:18   =20 Alaska         =20 8.2
19    54%   1944   = Dec.  =20 7    04:35   =20 Japan          =20 8.1
20    48%   1946   = Aug.  =20 4    17:51    Dom.=20 Repub.     8.0
21    =20 6%   1946   Dec.  20   =20 19:19   =20 Japan          =20 8.1
22     5%   1949   = Aug. =20 22    04:01    Q. Charlo. Is. =20 8.1
23     4%   1950   = Aug. =20 15    14:09   =20 Tibet          =20 8.6
24    91%   1952   = Nov.  =20 4    16:58   =20 Russia         =20 9
25    51%   1957   = Mar.  =20 9    14:22   =20 Alaska         =20 9.1
26    90%   1957   = Dec.  =20 4    03:37   =20 Mongolia       =20 8.1
27     6%   1960  =20 May   22    19:11   =20 Chile          =20 9.5
28    99%   1964   = Mar. =20 28    03:36   =20 Alaska         =20 9.2
29     5%   1965  =20 Feb.   4    05:01   =20 Alaska         =20 8.7
30     2%   1970   = Jul. =20 31    17.08   =20 Colombia        = 8
31   =20 28%   1985   Sep.  19   =20 13:17   =20 Mexico         =20 8
32     0%   1986  =20 May    7    22:47   =20 Alaska         =20 8
33     0%   1994  =20 Jun.   9    00:33   =20 Bolivia        =20 8.2
34    76%   2000   = Nov. =20 16    04:54    New=20 Ireland     8
35     = 7%  =20 2001   Jun.  23    = 20:33   =20 Peru            = 8.4
36     0%   2003   = Sep. =20 25    19:50   =20 Japan          =20 8.3
37    91%   2004   = Dec. =20 23    14:59   =20 Macquarie       = 8.1
38   =20 99%   2004   Dec.  26   =20 00:59   =20 Sumatra        =20 9.0


tchannel wrote:=20
Hi Folks,  Just curious about = the subject=20 of Earthquake Predictions.   We all can predict = earthquakes, if we=20 keep the "when" and "where" nonspecific.   But on a = serious=20 note, are there any scientific tools used?   Do the = phases of=20 the moon and the tides play a part?   I have asked this = question=20 to several people and received just as many opinions.
 
Thanks,=20 Ted
Subject: Re: Predictions From: Angel sismos@.............. Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 15:24:59 +0000

Hello Ted,


Just about the entire issue of "Seismological Reaserch Letters" Vol 78, Number 1 Jan/Feb 2007 is dedicated to "Regional Earthquake likelihood Models"  They don't use the word "predict" and almost don't use the words "forecast" but just the same "likelihood" is one of the bricks in the road to "predict". 

 

I have a articles on "predicting" earthquakes using well levels in Greece, they have predicted a few.  It is VERY localized but works for that local. The reference is:

"Pre-seismic responses of underground water levels and temperature concerning a 4.8 mag earthquake in Greece"  Tectonophysis, 170 (1989) 165-169


I attended a lecture by the author who is not a seismologist but a civil engineer working building codes and warning systems for small villages in Greece. 


In my opinion early warning is the holy grail of seismology.  Volcanologist are pretty good at this, they came close with St; Hellens, nailed it at Pinatubo and several other places.  



Angel 




Friday, April 20, 2007, 10:24:41 PM, you wrote:


>

Hi Folks,  Just curious about the subject of Earthquake Predictions.   We all can predict earthquakes, if we keep the "when" and "where" nonspecific.   But on a serious note, are there any scientific tools used?   Do the phases of the moon and the tides play a part?   I have asked this question to several people and received just as many opinions.

 

Thanks, Ted





-- 

Best regards,

 Angel

Subject: Re: Time of Quake?? From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 11:34:35 EDT In a message dated 2007/04/21, Paulc@........ writes: > For the past month I have been working on a horizontal pendulum sensor > and I am going through my maiden voyage with it. > The clock is accurate to within 10 seconds, I am using the Amaseis > program, and a 12 bit ADC. Hi Paul, The P waves may travel at 8.2 km / sec. You need your clock accurate to about 1 sec for practical purposes. I suggest that you keep a note of the errors for a day or two. They are often very large. You can buy a radio corrected crystal clock for less than $20. They are very useful and are accurate to 20 mS. They update every hour. You can also visit http://nist.time.gov/ and cross check on-line, but do watch out for transient data delays. > I would like to try and compare events elsewhere in the world / country > to my sensor. At this site I can see various locations. > > The question. > > If I know in when in UTC an event occurred, and where.. how do I > convert that to a UTC time when the event would arrive at my location, if ever. > In other words how ho long does it take to get here?? Y> ou can calculate arrival time using > http://neic.usgs.gov/neis/travel_times/ > and also download tables and charts to measure the distance from the P to S delay time. Regards, Chris Chapman In a me= ssage dated 2007/04/21, Paulc@........ writes:

   
For the=20= past month I have been working on a horizontal pendulum sensor and I am goin= g through my maiden voyage with it.
    The clock is accurate to within 10 seconds, I am using t= he Amaseis program, and a 12 bit ADC.


Hi Paul,

       The P waves may travel at 8.2 km / sec.= You need your clock accurate to about 1 sec for practical purposes. I sugge= st that you keep a note of the errors for a day or two. They are often very=20= large.
       You can buy a radio corrected crystal c= lock for less than $20. They are very useful and are accurate to 20 mS. They= update every hour.
       You can also visit http://nist.time.gov= / and cross check on-line, but do watch out for transient data delays.

    I would lik= e to try and compare events elsewhere in the world / country to my sensor. A= t this site I can see various locations.

The question.

    If I know in  when in UTC an event occurred, and wh= ere.. how do I convert that to a UTC time when the event would arrive at my=20= location, if ever.
In other words how ho long does it take to get here??


   Y
ou can calculat= e arrival time using htt= p://neic.usgs.gov/neis/travel_times/

       and also download tables and charts= to measure the distance from the P to S delay time.

       Regards,

       Chris Chapman

 Subject: Re: Predictions From: George Bush ke6pxp@....... Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 09:40:51 -0700 At 04:24 PM 4/20/2007 -0600, you wrote: >>>> Hi Folks, Just curious about the subject of Earthquake Predictions. We all can predict earthquakes, if we keep the "when" and "where" nonspecific. But on a serious note, are there any scientific tools used? Do the phases of the moon and the tides play a part? I have asked this question to several people and received just as many opinions. Thanks, Ted <<<<<<<< Ted- I live along the coast and along the San Andreas Fault, and am a member of the California Magnetometer Net. We have sensing stations spread around the state to detect Ultra Low Frequency (ULF) electromotive waves that could be caused by earth strain. My station consists of a PC monitoring 3-axis ferromagnetic antennas and while I haven't detected any quake precursors, it did detect a magnetic storm from the Sun. The CalMagNet is sponsored by Quakefinder (http://www.quakefinder.com/), who's vision is "QuakeFinder is dedicated to earthquake forecasting research to ultimately develop, within the next decade, a global warning system of imminent destructive earthquakes" If you are curious, you can go to the website and learn more about the group. You can also see the data from my station by clicking on the map on the website and selecting the Sea Ranch station. George Bush Sea Ranch, CA, USA 38.73775N, 123.48882W Subject: RE: Time of Quake?? From: "Bob Hancock" carpediem1@......... Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 10:26:11 -0700 Another timing option if you cannot get a good WWV signal or if your GPS signal is blocked by surrounding terrain, buildings, vegetation, etc, is Tardis 2000. This is best used with a continuous internet connection or at least you could set it up so it checks the timing while you are recording data. It connects at pre-determined time intervals to various timing locations around the globe of your choosing and updates your computer timing. It sells for $20 (US), and here is the link to their web site: http://www.kaska.demon.co.uk/ I used this for 3 years before we moved to a location where I could use GPS. I found it to be highly reliable and did not have any problems with it. Bob Hancock Three Points, AZ _____ From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of ChrisAtUpw@....... Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 08:35 To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: Time of Quake?? In a message dated 2007/04/21, Paulc@........ writes: For the past month I have been working on a horizontal pendulum sensor and I am going through my maiden voyage with it. The clock is accurate to within 10 seconds, I am using the Amaseis program, and a 12 bit ADC. Hi Paul, The P waves may travel at 8.2 km / sec. You need your clock accurate to about 1 sec for practical purposes. I suggest that you keep a note of the errors for a day or two. They are often very large. You can buy a radio corrected crystal clock for less than $20. They are very useful and are accurate to 20 mS. They update every hour. You can also visit http://nist.time.gov/ and cross check on-line, but do watch out for transient data delays. I would like to try and compare events elsewhere in the world / country to my sensor. At this site I can see various locations. The question. If I know in when in UTC an event occurred, and where.. how do I convert that to a UTC time when the event would arrive at my location, if ever. In other words how ho long does it take to get here?? Y ou can calculate arrival time using http://neic.usgs.gov/neis/travel_times/ and also download tables and charts to measure the distance from the P to S delay time. Regards, Chris Chapman

Another timing option if you cannot = get a good WWV signal or if your GPS signal is blocked by surrounding terrain, buildings, vegetation, etc, is Tardis 2000.  This is best used with = a continuous internet connection or at least you could set it up so it = checks the timing while you are recording data.  It connects at pre-determined = time intervals to various timing locations around the globe of your choosing = and updates your computer timing.  It sells for $20 (US), and here is the link = to their web site:    http://www.kaska.demon.co.uk/<= o:p>

 

I used this for 3 years before we = moved to a location where I could use GPS.  I found it to be highly reliable = and did not have any problems with it.

 

Bob = Hancock

Three Points, = AZ

 

From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... = On Behalf Of = ChrisAtUpw@.......
Sent: Saturday, April 21, = 2007 08:35
To: = psn-l@..............
Subject: Re: Time of = Quake??

 

In a message dated 2007/04/21, Paulc@........ = writes:

   

For the past month = I have been working on a horizontal pendulum sensor and I am going through my = maiden voyage with it.
    The clock is accurate to within 10 seconds, I am using the Amaseis program, and a 12 bit = ADC.



Hi Paul,

       The P waves may travel at 8.2 km / = sec. You need your clock accurate to about 1 sec for practical purposes. I = suggest that you keep a note of the errors for a day or two. They are often very = large.
       You can buy a radio corrected = crystal clock for less than $20. They are very useful and are accurate to 20 mS. = They update every hour.
       You can also visit = http://nist.time.gov/ and cross check on-line, but do watch out for transient data = delays.


   = = I would like to try and compare events elsewhere in the world / country to my = sensor. At this site I can see various locations.

The question.

    If I know in  when in UTC an = event occurred, and where.. how do I convert that to a UTC time when the event = would arrive at my location, if ever.
In other words how ho long does it take to get = here??



   Y<= /font>

ou can calculate = arrival time using http://neic.usgs.gov/nei= s/travel_times/


       and also download = tables and charts to measure the distance from the P to S delay time.

       Regards,

       Chris Chapman

Subject: Re: Time of Quake?? From: dave dalex@............ Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 10:45:16 -0700 gentlemen. there is a program at http://home.att.net/~Tom.Horsley/ntptime.html that keeps your computer within tenths of a second and is free. if you have an always on connection it can update time as often as you like. once in awhile the program appears to not work and what i found is that the server it is using to get the time has failed. if you select another server things will be ok. short of using a gps disciplined clock this is probably the easy and is accurate enough for us. dave k7da ChrisAtUpw@....... wrote: > In a message dated 2007/04/21, Paulc@........ writes: > > > >> For the past month I have been working on a horizontal pendulum sensor >> and I am going through my maiden voyage with it. >> The clock is accurate to within 10 seconds, I am using the Amaseis >> program, and a 12 bit ADC. > > > > Hi Paul, > > The P waves may travel at 8.2 km / sec. You need your clock > accurate to about 1 sec for practical purposes. I suggest that you keep > a note of the errors for a day or two. They are often very large. > You can buy a radio corrected crystal clock for less than $20. > They are very useful and are accurate to 20 mS. They update every hour. > You can also visit http://nist.time.gov/ and cross check on-line, > but do watch out for transient data delays. > >> I would like to try and compare events elsewhere in the world / >> country to my sensor. At this site I can see various locations. >> >> The question. >> >> If I know in when in UTC an event occurred, and where.. how do I >> convert that to a UTC time when the event would arrive at my location, >> if ever. >> In other words how ho long does it take to get here?? > > > > You can calculate arrival time using >> http://neic.usgs.gov/neis/travel_times/ > > > and also download tables and charts to measure the distance from > the P to S delay time. > > Regards, > > Chris Chapman > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Time of Quake?? From: "tchannel" tchannel@.............. Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 11:53:51 -0600 Hi Chris, A question about P travel time? I read somewhere it varies, = from __km to __km per second. Does it vary depending on the material, type of earth, that it is moving = through? I have calculated, from recordings, a range of 10,000 to 30,000 miles = per hour. That's a big range. I would like to have a better understanding of it. Thanks, Ted ----- Original Message -----=20 From: ChrisAtUpw@.......... To: psn-l@................. Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 9:34 AM Subject: Re: Time of Quake?? In a message dated 2007/04/21, Paulc@........ writes: =20 For the past month I have been working on a horizontal pendulum = sensor and I am going through my maiden voyage with it. The clock is accurate to within 10 seconds, I am using the = Amaseis program, and a 12 bit ADC. Hi Paul, The P waves may travel at 8.2 km / sec. You need your clock = accurate to about 1 sec for practical purposes. I suggest that you keep = a note of the errors for a day or two. They are often very large. You can buy a radio corrected crystal clock for less than $20. = They are very useful and are accurate to 20 mS. They update every hour.=20 You can also visit http://nist.time.gov/ and cross check = on-line, but do watch out for transient data delays. I would like to try and compare events elsewhere in the world / = country to my sensor. At this site I can see various locations. The question. If I know in when in UTC an event occurred, and where.. how do = I convert that to a UTC time when the event would arrive at my location, = if ever. In other words how ho long does it take to get here?? Y ou can calculate arrival time using = http://neic.usgs.gov/neis/travel_times/=20 and also download tables and charts to measure the distance = from the P to S delay time. Regards, Chris Chapman
Hi Chris, A question about P travel = time?  I=20 read somewhere it varies, from __km to __km per second.
Does it vary depending on the material, = type of=20 earth, that it is moving through?
I have calculated, from recordings, a = range of=20 10,000 to 30,000 miles per hour. That's a big range.
 
I would like to have a better = understanding of=20 it.   Thanks, Ted
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 ChrisAtUpw@.......
Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 = 9:34=20 AM
Subject: Re: Time of = Quake??

In a=20 message dated 2007/04/21, Paulc@........=20 writes:

    For the past month I have been working on a horizontal = pendulum=20 sensor and I am going through my maiden voyage with it.
    The clock=20 is accurate to within 10 seconds, I am using the Amaseis program, = and a 12=20 bit ADC.


Hi=20 Paul,

       The P waves may = travel at=20 8.2 km / sec. You need your clock accurate to about 1 sec for = practical=20 purposes. I suggest that you keep a note of the errors for a day or = two. They=20 are often very large.
       You can = buy a=20 radio corrected crystal clock for less than $20. They are very useful = and are=20 accurate to 20 mS. They update every hour.=20
       You can also visit=20 http://nist.time.gov/ and cross check on-line, but do watch out for = transient=20 data delays.

    I would like to = try and=20 compare events elsewhere in the world / country to my sensor. At = this site I=20 can see various locations.

The = question.

    If I know=20 in  when in UTC an event occurred, and where.. how do I convert = that to=20 a UTC time when the event would arrive at my location, if = ever.
In other words = how ho long=20 does it take to get here??

   Y ou can calculate arrival time using http://neic.usgs.gov/nei= s/travel_times/=20

      =20 and also = download tables=20 and charts to measure the distance from the P to S delay=20 time.

      =20 Regards,

       Chris = Chapman

 Subject: RE: Time of Quake?? From: "Paul Cianciolo" Paulc@........ Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 14:54:40 -0400 Hey Guys, Thanks for all the input on the time question. First I did make a mistake, as Steven pointed out. Thanks Steve... Yup I was adding the time.. Sorry for the dumb mistake. I am going to check out the links that you folks pointed out. I also have a 10 MHz GPS discipline standard... a Z3801 and will look into interfacing that to my computer. But will somebody please tell me why the clock accuracy is so important?? It appears that events last multiples of minutes and longer. Why is clock accuracy in milliseconds so important. Unless one is trying to "triangulate" or compare phase of signals.. I must be missing something. PauLC W1VLF -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@................. Behalf Of dave Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 1:45 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: Time of Quake?? gentlemen. there is a program at http://home.att.net/~Tom.Horsley/ntptime.html that keeps your computer within tenths of a second and is free. if you have an always on connection it can update time as often as you like. once in awhile the program appears to not work and what i found is that the server it is using to get the time has failed. if you select another server things will be ok. short of using a gps disciplined clock this is probably the easy and is accurate enough for us. dave k7da ChrisAtUpw@....... wrote: > In a message dated 2007/04/21, Paulc@........ writes: > > > >> For the past month I have been working on a horizontal pendulum sensor >> and I am going through my maiden voyage with it. >> The clock is accurate to within 10 seconds, I am using the Amaseis >> program, and a 12 bit ADC. > > > > Hi Paul, > > The P waves may travel at 8.2 km / sec. You need your clock > accurate to about 1 sec for practical purposes. I suggest that you keep > a note of the errors for a day or two. They are often very large. > You can buy a radio corrected crystal clock for less than $20. > They are very useful and are accurate to 20 mS. They update every hour. > You can also visit http://nist.time.gov/ and cross check on-line, > but do watch out for transient data delays. > >> I would like to try and compare events elsewhere in the world / >> country to my sensor. At this site I can see various locations. >> >> The question. >> >> If I know in when in UTC an event occurred, and where.. how do I >> convert that to a UTC time when the event would arrive at my location, >> if ever. >> In other words how ho long does it take to get here?? > > > > You can calculate arrival time using >> http://neic.usgs.gov/neis/travel_times/ > > > and also download tables and charts to measure the distance from > the P to S delay time. > > Regards, > > Chris Chapman > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: Time of Quake?? From: "Paul Cianciolo" Paulc@........ Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 15:38:31 -0400 Ted, Is it you that is using a DATAQ device... ? a 154 or a 158 PauLC -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@................. Behalf Of tchannel Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 1:54 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: Time of Quake?? Hi Chris, A question about P travel time? I read somewhere it varies, from __km to __km per second. Does it vary depending on the material, type of earth, that it is moving through? I have calculated, from recordings, a range of 10,000 to 30,000 miles per hour. That's a big range. I would like to have a better understanding of it. Thanks, Ted ----- Original Message ----- From: ChrisAtUpw@....... To: psn-l@.............. Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 9:34 AM Subject: Re: Time of Quake?? In a message dated 2007/04/21, Paulc@........ writes: For the past month I have been working on a horizontal pendulum sensor and I am going through my maiden voyage with it. The clock is accurate to within 10 seconds, I am using the Amaseis program, and a 12 bit ADC. Hi Paul, The P waves may travel at 8.2 km / sec. You need your clock accurate to about 1 sec for practical purposes. I suggest that you keep a note of the errors for a day or two. They are often very large. You can buy a radio corrected crystal clock for less than $20. They are very useful and are accurate to 20 mS. They update every hour. You can also visit http://nist.time.gov/ and cross check on-line, but do watch out for transient data delays. I would like to try and compare events elsewhere in the world / country to my sensor. At this site I can see various locations. The question. If I know in when in UTC an event occurred, and where.. how do I convert that to a UTC time when the event would arrive at my location, if ever. In other words how ho long does it take to get here?? Y ou can calculate arrival time using http://neic.usgs.gov/neis/travel_times/ and also download tables and charts to measure the distance from the P to S delay time. Regards, Chris Chapman
Ted,
 
Is it=20 you that is using a DATAQ device...  ?
 
a 154=20 or a 158
PauLC
-----Original Message-----
From: = psn-l-request@................. [mailto:psn-l-request@...............On Behalf Of=20 tchannel
Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 1:54 = PM
To:=20 psn-l@..............
Subject: Re: Time of=20 Quake??

Hi Chris, A question about P travel = time?  I=20 read somewhere it varies, from __km to __km per second.
Does it vary depending on the = material, type of=20 earth, that it is moving through?
I have calculated, from recordings, a = range of=20 10,000 to 30,000 miles per hour. That's a big range.
 
I would like to have a better = understanding of=20 it.   Thanks, Ted
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 ChrisAtUpw@.......
Sent: Saturday, April 21, = 2007 9:34=20 AM
Subject: Re: Time of = Quake??

In a=20 message dated 2007/04/21, Paulc@........=20 writes:

    For the past month I have been working on a horizontal = pendulum sensor and I am going through my maiden voyage with=20 it.
    The clock=20 is accurate to within 10 seconds, I am using the Amaseis program, = and a 12=20 bit ADC.


Hi=20 Paul,

       The P waves may = travel at=20 8.2 km / sec. You need your clock accurate to about 1 sec for = practical=20 purposes. I suggest that you keep a note of the errors for a day or = two.=20 They are often very large.
       = You can=20 buy a radio corrected crystal clock for less than $20. They are very = useful=20 and are accurate to 20 mS. They update every hour.=20
       You can also visit=20 http://nist.time.gov/ and cross check on-line, but do watch out for=20 transient data delays.

    I would like = to try and=20 compare events elsewhere in the world / country to my sensor. At = this site=20 I can see various locations.

The = question.

    If I know=20 in  when in UTC an event occurred, and where.. how do I = convert that=20 to a UTC time when the event would arrive at my location, if=20 ever.
In other words = how ho long=20 does it take to get here??

   = Y=20 ou can calculate arrival time using http://neic.usgs.gov/nei= s/travel_times/=20

      = ;=20 and also=20 download tables and charts to measure the distance from the P to S = delay=20 time.

      =20 Regards,

       Chris=20 Chapman

<= /HTML> Subject: Re: Time of Quake?? From: "tchannel" tchannel@.............. Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 14:02:45 -0600 Hi Paul, Yes I am using the very inexpensive $30? DataQ 194 I am = very happy with it, I actually use two of them for two different = stations. You can see my .gif's on the Psn new events page. Ted ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Paul Cianciolo=20 To: psn-l@................. Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 1:38 PM Subject: RE: Time of Quake?? Ted, Is it you that is using a DATAQ device... ? a 154 or a 158=20 PauLC -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. = [mailto:psn-l-request@................. Behalf Of tchannel Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 1:54 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: Time of Quake?? Hi Chris, A question about P travel time? I read somewhere it = varies, from __km to __km per second. Does it vary depending on the material, type of earth, that it is = moving through? I have calculated, from recordings, a range of 10,000 to 30,000 = miles per hour. That's a big range. I would like to have a better understanding of it. Thanks, Ted ----- Original Message -----=20 From: ChrisAtUpw@.......... To: psn-l@................. Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 9:34 AM Subject: Re: Time of Quake?? In a message dated 2007/04/21, Paulc@........ writes: =20 For the past month I have been working on a horizontal pendulum = sensor and I am going through my maiden voyage with it. The clock is accurate to within 10 seconds, I am using the = Amaseis program, and a 12 bit ADC. Hi Paul, The P waves may travel at 8.2 km / sec. You need your clock = accurate to about 1 sec for practical purposes. I suggest that you keep = a note of the errors for a day or two. They are often very large. You can buy a radio corrected crystal clock for less than = $20. They are very useful and are accurate to 20 mS. They update every = hour.=20 You can also visit http://nist.time.gov/ and cross check = on-line, but do watch out for transient data delays. I would like to try and compare events elsewhere in the = world / country to my sensor. At this site I can see various locations. The question. If I know in when in UTC an event occurred, and where.. how = do I convert that to a UTC time when the event would arrive at my = location, if ever. In other words how ho long does it take to get here?? Y=20 ou can calculate arrival time using = http://neic.usgs.gov/neis/travel_times/=20 and also download tables and charts to measure the distance = from the P to S delay time. Regards, Chris Chapman
Hi Paul, Yes I am using the very  = inexpensive=20 $30?  DataQ 194   I am very happy with it, I actually use = two of=20 them for two different stations.  You can see my .gif's on the Psn = new=20 events page.  Ted
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Paul = Cianciolo
Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 = 1:38=20 PM
Subject: RE: Time of = Quake??

Ted,
 
Is=20 it you that is using a DATAQ device...  ?
 
a=20 154 or a 158
PauLC
-----Original Message-----
From: psn-l-request@............... =20 [mailto:psn-l-request@...............On Behalf Of=20 tchannel
Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2007 1:54 = PM
To:=20 psn-l@..............
Subje= ct:=20 Re: Time of Quake??

Hi Chris, A question about P travel = time? =20 I read somewhere it varies, from __km to __km per = second.
Does it vary depending on the = material, type of=20 earth, that it is moving through?
I have calculated, from recordings, = a range of=20 10,000 to 30,000 miles per hour. That's a big = range.
 
I would like to have a better = understanding of=20 it.   Thanks, Ted
----- Original Message ----- =
From:=20 ChrisAtUpw@.......
Sent: Saturday, April 21, = 2007 9:34=20 AM
Subject: Re: Time of = Quake??

In a=20 message dated 2007/04/21, Paulc@........=20 writes:

    For the past month I have been working on a = horizontal=20 pendulum sensor and I am going through my maiden voyage with=20 it.
    The clock is accurate to = within 10=20 seconds, I am using the Amaseis program, and a 12 bit = ADC.


Hi=20 Paul,

       The P waves may = travel=20 at 8.2 km / sec. You need your clock accurate to about 1 sec for = practical=20 purposes. I suggest that you keep a note of the errors for a day = or two.=20 They are often very large.
       = You can=20 buy a radio corrected crystal clock for less than $20. They are = very=20 useful and are accurate to 20 mS. They update every hour.=20
       You can also visit=20 http://nist.time.gov/ and cross check on-line, but do watch out = for=20 transient data delays.

    I would like = to try and=20 compare events elsewhere in the world / country to my sensor. At = this=20 site I can see various locations.

The = question.

    If I=20 know in  when in UTC an event occurred, and where.. how do = I=20 convert that to a UTC time when the event would arrive at my = location,=20 if ever.
In other words how ho long does it take to get=20 here??


   = Y=20 ou can calculate arrival time using http://neic.usgs.gov/nei= s/travel_times/=20

      =20 and=20 also download tables and charts to measure the distance from the P = to S=20 delay time.

      =20 Regards,

       Chris=20 Chapman

 Subject: Re: Time of Quake?? From: Stephen & Kathy skmort@............ Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 13:24:12 -0700 FYI,, you are correct,, exact timing is only important to the pros and those who are trying to use their own traces in conjunction with others to find exact start time of the event, exact location and magnitude! If you plan to send your files to PSN for others to use and analyze, then you need to get serious about better timing, otherwise just enjoy,,, your relative P and S times will still give you the distance from your station and you can still determine a magnitude based on your station parameters, but trying to correlate your trace with others becomes a bit of a pain! If you know your timing error, some of the viewing software, (like winquake), allows some shifting of the time after the fact! I use the old Radio Shack version of dataq, the 12 bit DI-150RS, in conjunction with Amaseis software,,, my system gains about 13 seconds per day and I use Atomic time, (over a phone line), to reset once per day and then it is set to compensate each hour,,, but it only compensates after it is out by at least one second, which means it only compensates about every two hours! Once in a while, atomic time will hang and I won't notice it for several days,,,, it is just a hobby for me so timing isn't critical, or serious!!!! I do have a fixed GPS and for a while, when I was running the dataq software, I let it record time hacks on the second channel and could easily determine my error! Stephen PSN Station #55 where dumb mistakes are a regular part of my adventure in life, ha!! Paul Cianciolo wrote: > Hey Guys, > > Thanks for all the input on the time question. > > First I did make a mistake, as Steven pointed out. Thanks Steve... Yup I > was adding the time.. Sorry for the dumb mistake. > > I am going to check out the links that you folks pointed out. > > I also have a 10 MHz GPS discipline standard... a Z3801 and will look into > interfacing that to my computer. > > But will somebody please tell me why the clock accuracy is so important?? > It appears that events last multiples of minutes and longer. Why is clock > accuracy in milliseconds so important. > Unless one is trying to "triangulate" or compare phase of signals.. I must > be missing something. > > PauLC > W1VLF > > > FYI,,  you are correct,,  exact timing is only important to the pros and those who are trying to use their own traces in conjunction with others to find exact start time of the event, exact location and magnitude!   If you plan to send your files to PSN for others to use and analyze, then you need to get serious about better timing, otherwise just enjoy,,,   your relative P and S times will still give you the distance from your station and you can still determine a magnitude based on your station parameters, but trying to correlate your trace with others becomes a bit of a pain!   If you know your timing error, some of the viewing software, (like winquake), allows some shifting of the time after the fact!   I use the old Radio Shack version of dataq, the 12 bit DI-150RS, in conjunction with Amaseis software,,,   my system gains about 13 seconds per day and I use Atomic time, (over a phone line), to reset once per day and then it is set to compensate each hour,,,  but it only compensates after it is out by at least one second, which means it only compensates about every two hours!   Once in a while, atomic time will hang and I won't notice it for several days,,,,   it is just a hobby for me so timing isn't critical, or serious!!!!   I do have a fixed GPS and for a while, when I was running the dataq software, I let it record time hacks on the second channel and could easily determine my error!  
  Stephen
  PSN Station #55
  where dumb mistakes are a regular part of my adventure in life, ha!!

Paul Cianciolo wrote: 
Hey Guys,

Thanks for all the input on the time question.

First I did make a mistake, as Steven pointed out.  Thanks Steve...  Yup I
was adding the time..  Sorry for the dumb mistake.

I am going to check out the links that you folks pointed out.

I also have a 10 MHz GPS discipline standard... a Z3801  and will look into
interfacing that to my computer.

But will somebody please tell me why the clock accuracy is so important??
It appears that events last multiples of minutes and longer.  Why is clock
accuracy in milliseconds so important.
Unless one is trying to "triangulate" or compare phase of signals.. I must
be missing something.

PauLC
W1VLF
Subject: Re: Time of Quake?? From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 16:43:43 EDT In a message dated 2007/04/21, Paulc@........ writes: > But will somebody please tell me why the clock accuracy is so important? > It appears that events last multiples of minutes and longer. Why is clock > accuracy in milliseconds so important. > Unless one is trying to "triangulate" or compare phase of signals.. I must > be missing something. Hi Paul, You use the accurate quake time to determine the epicentre, using the P wave records of several stations. You don't generally need millisecond accuracy unless you are monitoring a local volcano or a similar feature, when the time delays are less than a second. The timing problem is due to cumulative clock errors. 1 ppm = 1 sec every 11.57 days. It is relatively difficult to hold even a quartz clock to this accuracy over the ambient temperature range. If you have a 10 ppm drift, this translates into about a second a day. Most computers use the cheap 32 kHz watch crystals. These can have quite large temperature drifts. The reason that I suggested using abouttime, is that your computer reads the time signal and it then sends a 'ping' signal which is immediatly reflected by abouttime. This enables you to measure and correct for transmission delays. Before digital circuits were used on phone networks, the delays were small. Now the digital information packet can be delayed by other traffic. I have seen delays of NIST of over 3 seconds in Europe. Regards, Chris Chapman In a me= ssage dated 2007/04/21, Paulc@........ writes:

But will somebody please tell m= e why the clock accuracy is so important?
It appears that events last multiples of minutes and longer.  Why is cl= ock
accuracy in milliseconds so important.
Unless one is trying to "triangulate" or compare phase of signals.. I must be missing something.


Hi Paul,

       You use the accurate quake time to dete= rmine the epicentre, using the P wave records of several stations.
       You don't generally need millisecond a= ccuracy unless you are monitoring a local volcano or a similar feature, when= the time delays are less than a second.
       The timing problem is due to cumulative= clock errors. 1 ppm =3D 1 sec every 11.57 days. It is relatively difficult=20= to hold even a quartz clock to this accuracy over the ambient temperature ra= nge. If you have a 10 ppm drift, this translates into about a second a day.=20= Most computers use the cheap 32 kHz watch crystals. These can have quite lar= ge temperature drifts.
       The reason that I suggested using about= time, is that your computer reads the time signal and it then sends a 'ping'= signal which is immediatly reflected by abouttime. This enables you to meas= ure and correct for transmission delays. Before digital circuits were used o= n phone networks, the delays were small. Now the digital information packet=20= can be delayed by other traffic. I have seen delays of NIST of over 3 second= s in Europe.

       Regards,

       Chris Chapman Subject: Re: Time of Quake?? From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 17:21:29 EDT In a message dated 2007/04/21, tchannel@.............. writes: > Hi Chris, A question about P travel time? I read somewhere it varies, from > __km to __km per second. > Does it vary depending on the material, type of earth, that it is moving > through? > I have calculated, from recordings, a range of 10,000 to 30,000 miles per > hour. That's a big range. Hi Ted, I suggest that you download and print out a copy of the Seismograph Training manual from http://psn.quake.net/info/analysis.pdf and also a travel time graph from http://neic.usgs.gov/neis/travel_times/ The velocity of P waves in the mantle increase with depth from 8.2 to 13.5 km / sec. P and S wave velocities depend on the depth and on the rock type. There are large variations in the surface rocks, but the incidence angle is often quite steep, so uncertainties may be relatively small. The tables / graphs of velocities with angular distance are averaged velocities. You may notice variations if say you are west of the Rockies and the quake is to the east, or vice versa. You also have the problem that a plane wave often follows an upwardly curving path through the earth - NOT a straight line! This is due to the variation of the velocity with depth and to the curve of the earth. Regards, Chris Chapman In a me= ssage dated 2007/04/21, tchannel@.............. writes:

Hi Chris, A question about P tr= avel time?  I read somewhere it varies, from __km to __km per second.<= BR> Does it vary depending on the material, type of earth, that it is moving th= rough?
I have calculated, from recordings, a range of 10,000 to 30,000 miles per h= our. That's a big range.


Hi Ted,

       I suggest that you download and print o= ut a copy of the Seismograph Training manual from http://psn.quake.net/info/= analysis.pdf and also a travel time graph from
http://neic.usgs.gov/ne= is/travel_times/
       The velocity of P waves in the mant= le increase with depth from 8.2 to 13.5 km / sec.

       P and S wave velocities depend on the d= epth and on the rock type. There are large variations in the surface rocks,=20= but the incidence angle is often quite steep, so uncertainties may be relati= vely small. The tables / graphs of velocities with angular distance are aver= aged velocities. You may notice variations if say you are west of the Rockie= s and the quake is to the east, or vice versa. You also have the problem tha= t a plane wave often follows an upwardly curving path through the earth - NO= T a straight line! This is due to the variation of the velocity with depth a= nd to the curve of the earth.

       Regards,

       Chris Chapman Subject: RE: Predictions From: "Kareem Lanier, Heyjoojoo.Com" system98765@............. Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 20:10:49 -0700 I so believe that we are getting closer.. _____ From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of ChrisAtUpw@....... Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 8:23 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: Predictions In a message dated 2007/04/20, tchannel@.............. writes: Just curious about the subject of Earthquake Predictions. But on a serious note, are there any scientific tools used? Do the phases of the moon and the tides play a part? I have asked this question to several people and received just as many opinions. Hi Ted, Type Earthquake Prediction into Google? See http://www.nature.com/nature/debates/earthquake/equake_frameset.html Short answer is that we don't know. Strong quakes may be associated with parts of the tide cycle. The question is which cycle? The local background noise may decrease before a large quake. There may be physical movement before shallower quakes, but you are unlikely to get much observable effect at the surface if the rupture is 100 km down. About 1/3 of quakes show precursor quakes. There may be a few cycles of very long period precursor. There may be changes in the water table, changes in Radon emission, electric / RF field noise, animals seem to be able to sense 'something'..... One thing is certain. If you say we will never be able to predict quakes and no funds to experiment are allocated, we WON'T develop the / any ability!! Even if we could only get timely warning for a few quake locations / depths, the benefits could be very significant. A lot of the severe quakes are associated with subduction zones, like those off the west coast of the Americas, but the interval may be hundreds of years. Regards, Chris Chapman
I so believe that we are getting=20 closer..

From: psn-l-request@................. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of=20 ChrisAtUpw@.......
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2007 8:23=20 PM
To: psn-l@..............
Subject: Re:=20 Predictions

In = a message=20 dated 2007/04/20, tchannel@.............. writes:

Just curious about the subject of Earthquake Predictions. = But on a=20 serious note, are there any scientific tools used? Do the phases of = the moon=20 and the tides play a part? I have asked this question to several = people and=20 received just as many opinions.

Hi=20 Ted,

       Type Earthquake = Prediction into=20 Google?
       See=20 http://www.nature.com/nature/debates/earthquake/equake_frameset.html
<= BR>      =20 Short answer is that we don't know. Strong quakes may be associated with = parts=20 of the tide cycle. The question is which cycle? The local background = noise may=20 decrease before a large quake. There may be physical movement before = shallower=20 quakes, but you are unlikely to get much observable effect at the = surface if the=20 rupture is 100 km down. About 1/3 of quakes show precursor quakes. There = may be=20 a few cycles of very long period precursor. There may be changes in the = water=20 table, changes in Radon emission, electric / RF field noise, animals = seem to be=20 able to sense 'something'.....
       = One=20 thing is certain. If you say we will never be able to predict quakes and = no=20 funds to experiment are allocated, we WON'T develop the / any ability!! = Even if=20 we could only get timely warning for a few quake locations / depths, the = benefits could be very significant. A lot of the severe quakes are = associated=20 with subduction zones, like those off the west coast of the Americas, = but the=20 interval may be hundreds of = years.

      =20 Regards,

       Chris = Chapman=20 Subject: Re: Time of Quake?? From: John or Jan Lahr JohnJan@........ Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2007 21:26:09 -0700 To better visualize the way that seismic waves travel within the earth, I highly recommend downloading and running the free program SeismicWaves, which was written by Alan Jones. (He's also the author of AmaSeis and SeismicEruption). These programs are available from his web site: http://www.geol.binghamton.edu/faculty/jones/ You can also add your own trace to SeismicWaves; it's particularly easy if you're running AmaSeis, but any file in SAC format can be displayed. Cheers, John __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: Predictions From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 09:59:46 +0000 Hi all The best way, proven so far (that I know of) in predicting earthquakes is to monitor buildup of small earthquakes or monitor areas that lack earthquakes over a long periods of time but are active in earthquakes. In Iceland, both rules applies. Some areas make small earthquakes over a long period of time while other areas don't. I try to monitor for both signs. But this mixed sucsess. Regards. --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann http://www.jonfr.com http://www.simnet.is/jonfr500/earthquake/ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Prediction From: Tangazazen@....... Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 08:52:04 EDT Hi all, As a new member of the group it's been interesting reading the numerous e-mail's. I hear a lot about millisecond timing of events, etc. which I am not in a position to do yet. I do wonder how important it is, last evening here in England I picked up the South Chile earth quake ( 17:53:47 Mag 6.2 ). Since this is situated in the shadow zone I only receive the surface waves. We are talking of a travel time of 45 minutes +/- 5 minutes. I suppose if the earthquake is on your back door then a few millisecond is important before it clobbers you. Martin Page
Hi all,
 
 As a new member of the group it's been interesting reading the=20 numerous e-mail's.
I hear a lot about millisecond timing of events, etc. which I am not in= =20 a position to do yet.
I do wonder how important it is, last evening here in England I picked=20= up=20 the South Chile earth quake ( 17:53:47 Mag 6.2 ). Since this is situated in=20= the=20 shadow zone I only receive the surface waves. We are talking of a travel tim= e of=20 45 minutes +/- 5 minutes. I suppose if the earthquake is on your back door t= hen=20 a few millisecond is important before it clobbers you.
 
 Martin Page 
 Subject: Re: Predictions From: Stephen & Kathy skmort@............ Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2007 15:34:38 -0700 FYI,, here is a 7 mag and moon phase study,, it is easy to mess up,, so, corrections are welcome! Stephen PSN Station #55 Comparing Moon Phase and 7.0 to 7.9 magnitude quakes. From the first of the following two web sites, I located 61 quakes in the magnitude range of 7.0 to 7.9 from the years 1812 to 2003. From the second link I found the Moon Phase at the time of the quake. I divided the phase into 4 approximately equal time quadrants. The phase and time quadrants work out to about the following. 0 to 15% = New Moon quadrant 85 to 100% = Full Moon quadrant 16 to 84% = first or last quarter quadrant For the data below, an F = First quarter, L = Last quarter quadrant http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_earthquakes http://www.fourmilab.ch/cgi-bin/uncgi/Earth/action?opt=-m&img=Moon.evif It sorts out to the following: 0 to 15% = 17 85 to 100% = 12 16 to 84% at F = 15 16 to 84% at L = 17 Conclusion: Compared to the sorting of the 8 and 9 mag. quakes, the 7 mag. events seem to start averaging out! While the New Moon favors the Full Moon, the quarter moon quadrants have a slight edge over the new and full moon quadrants in this study! # Moon Year Mo. Day UTC Place Approx. Phase Mag. 1 76%F 1812 Jan 23 15:00 Missouri 7.8 2 47%L 1823 Jun 2 8:00 Hawaii 7.0 3 99% 1857 Jan 9 16:24 California 7.9 4 78%F 1868 Apr 3 2:25 Hawaii 7.9 5 97% 1872 Mar 26 10:30 California 7.6 6 99% 1872 Dec 15 5:40 Washington 7.3 7 10% 1873 Nov 23 5:00 Ca-Or coast 7.3 8 3% 1886 Aug 31 2:51 So Carolina 7.3 9 1% 1899 Sep 4 0:22 Alaska 7.9 10 98% 1900 Oct 9 12:28 Alaska 7.7 11 96% 1904 Aug 27 21:56 Alaska 7.3 12 23%L 1906 Apr 18 13:12 California 7.8 13 27%F 1908 Dec 28 4:20 Italy 7.2 14 32%L 1915 Oct 3 6:52 Nevada 7.1 15 33%F 1918 Oct 11 14:14 Puerto Rico 7.5 16 7% 1918 Dec 6 8:41 Canada 7.0 17 10% 1922 Jan 31 13:17 California 7.3 18 25%F 1923 Jan 22 9:04 California 7.2 19 72%L 1923 Sep 1 2:58 Japan 7.9 20 18%F 1927 Mar 7 9:27 Japan 7.6 21 64%L 1927 May 22 22:32 China 7.9 22 70%F 1927 Nov 4 13:51 California 7.1 23 95% 1929 Nov 18 20:32 Canada 7.3 24 45%L 1932 Dec 21 6:10 Nevada 7.2 25 15% 1933 Nov 20 23:21 Canada 7.4 26 99% 1937 Jul 22 17:09 Alaska 7.3 27 99% 1939 Dec 26 23:57 Turkey 7.8 28 92% 1940 May 19 4:36 California 7.1 29 0% 1946 Apr 1 12:28 Alaska 7.3 30 3% 1947 Oct 16 2:09 Alaska 7.2 31 99% 1949 Apr 13 19:55 Washington 7.1 32 0% 1952 Jul 21 11:52 California 7.3 33 33%L 1954 Mar 29 6:17 Spain 7.9 34 56%L 1954 Dec 16 11:07 Nevada 7.1 35 83%L 1958 Apr 7 15:30 Alaska 7.3 36 38%L 1958 Jul 10 6:15 Alaska 7.7 37 99% 1959 Aug 18 6:37 Montana 7.3 38 41%F 1964 Jun 16 4:01 Japan 7.5 39 11% 1970 May 31 20:23 Peru 7.9 40 37%L 1975 Feb 4 11:36 China 7.0 41 15% 1975 Nov 29 14:47 Hawaii 7.2 42 15% 1976 Feb 4 9:01 Guatemala 7.5 43 0% 1976 Jul 27 19:42 Tangshan 7.6 44 0% 1980 Nov 8 10:27 California 7.2 45 56%L 1983 Oct 28 14:06 Idaho 7.0 46 78%F 1987 Nov 30 19:23 Alaska 7.9 47 90% 1988 Mar 6 22:35 Alaska 7.8 48 56%F 1991 Aug 17 22:17 California 7.1 49 41%L 1992 Apr 25 18:06 California 7.2 50 5% 1992 Jun 28 11:57 California 7.3 51 30%F 1992 Sep 2 0:16 Nicaragua 7.7 52 19%L 1994 Sep 1 15:15 California 7.1 53 41%L 1998 Jul 17 8:49 New Guinea 7.0 54 30%F 1999 Aug 17 0:01 Turkey 7.6 55 76%F 1999 Sep 20 17:47 Taiwan 7.7 56 38%F 1999 Oct 16 9:46 California 7.2 57 17%F 1999 Nov 12 16:57 Turkey 7.2 58 79%L 2001 Jan 13 17:33 El Salvador 7.7 59 2% 2001 Jan 26 3:16 India 7.7 60 1% 2002 Nov 3 22:12 Alaska 7.9 61 48%L 2003 Nov 17 6:43 Alaska 7.8 tchannel wrote: > Stephen and Everyone, This is just great input....Stephen, Yes I sure > would like to see your study expanded to include M6 and M7's. I > printed you message. I wish I know something about Statistics. > Thanks, Ted FYI,,  here is a 7 mag and moon phase study,,  it is easy
to mess up,,  so, corrections are welcome!
  Stephen
  PSN Station #55

    Comparing Moon Phase and 7.0 to 7.9 magnitude quakes.
From the first of the following two web sites, I located 61 quakes
in the magnitude range of 7.0 to 7.9   from the years  1812 to 2003.
From the second link I found the Moon Phase at the time of the quake.
I divided the phase into 4 approximately equal time quadrants.
The phase and time quadrants work out to about the following.
         0 to  15% = New Moon quadrant
        85 to 100% = Full Moon quadrant
        16 to 84%  = first or last quarter quadrant
    For the data below, an F = First quarter, L = Last quarter quadrant
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_earthquakes
http://www.fourmilab.ch/cgi-bin/uncgi/Earth/action?opt=-m&img=Moon.evif
    It sorts out to the following:
         0 to 15%       = 17
        85 to 100%      = 12
        16 to 84% at F  = 15
        16 to 84% at L  = 17
Conclusion:
    Compared to the sorting of the 8 and 9 mag. quakes, the 7 mag.
    events seem to start averaging out!  While the New Moon favors
    the Full Moon, the quarter moon quadrants have a slight edge
    over the new and full moon quadrants in this study!  

 #  Moon  Year  Mo. Day   UTC    Place     Approx.
    Phase                                   Mag.
 1  76%F  1812  Jan  23  15:00  Missouri    7.8
 2  47%L  1823  Jun   2   8:00  Hawaii      7.0
 3  99%   1857  Jan   9  16:24  California  7.9
 4  78%F  1868  Apr   3   2:25  Hawaii      7.9
 5  97%   1872  Mar  26  10:30  California  7.6
 6  99%   1872  Dec  15   5:40  Washington  7.3
 7  10%   1873  Nov  23   5:00  Ca-Or coast 7.3
 8   3%   1886  Aug  31   2:51  So Carolina 7.3
 9   1%   1899  Sep   4   0:22  Alaska      7.9
10  98%   1900  Oct   9  12:28  Alaska      7.7
11  96%   1904  Aug  27  21:56  Alaska      7.3
12  23%L  1906  Apr  18  13:12  California  7.8
13  27%F  1908  Dec  28   4:20  Italy       7.2
14  32%L  1915  Oct   3   6:52  Nevada      7.1
15  33%F  1918  Oct  11  14:14  Puerto Rico 7.5
16   7%   1918  Dec   6   8:41  Canada      7.0
17  10%   1922  Jan  31  13:17  California  7.3
18  25%F  1923  Jan  22   9:04  California  7.2
19  72%L  1923  Sep   1   2:58  Japan       7.9
20  18%F  1927  Mar   7   9:27  Japan       7.6
21  64%L  1927  May  22  22:32  China       7.9
22  70%F  1927  Nov   4  13:51  California  7.1
23  95%   1929  Nov  18  20:32  Canada      7.3
24  45%L  1932  Dec  21   6:10  Nevada      7.2
25  15%   1933  Nov  20  23:21  Canada      7.4
26  99%   1937  Jul  22  17:09  Alaska      7.3
27  99%   1939  Dec  26  23:57  Turkey      7.8
28  92%   1940  May  19   4:36  California  7.1
29   0%   1946  Apr   1  12:28  Alaska      7.3
30   3%   1947  Oct  16   2:09  Alaska      7.2
31  99%   1949  Apr  13  19:55  Washington  7.1
32   0%   1952  Jul  21  11:52  California  7.3
33  33%L  1954  Mar  29   6:17  Spain       7.9
34  56%L  1954  Dec  16  11:07  Nevada      7.1
35  83%L  1958  Apr   7  15:30  Alaska      7.3
36  38%L  1958  Jul  10   6:15  Alaska      7.7
37  99%   1959  Aug  18   6:37  Montana     7.3
38  41%F  1964  Jun  16   4:01  Japan       7.5
39  11%   1970  May  31  20:23  Peru        7.9
40  37%L  1975  Feb   4  11:36  China       7.0
41  15%   1975  Nov  29  14:47  Hawaii      7.2
42  15%   1976  Feb   4   9:01  Guatemala   7.5
43   0%   1976  Jul  27  19:42  Tangshan    7.6
44   0%   1980  Nov   8  10:27  California  7.2
45  56%L  1983  Oct  28  14:06  Idaho       7.0
46  78%F  1987  Nov  30  19:23  Alaska      7.9
47  90%   1988  Mar   6  22:35  Alaska      7.8
48  56%F  1991  Aug  17  22:17  California  7.1
49  41%L  1992  Apr  25  18:06  California  7.2
50   5%   1992  Jun  28  11:57  California  7.3
51  30%F  1992  Sep   2   0:16  Nicaragua   7.7
52  19%L  1994  Sep   1  15:15  California  7.1
53  41%L  1998  Jul  17   8:49  New Guinea  7.0     
54  30%F  1999  Aug  17   0:01  Turkey      7.6
55  76%F  1999  Sep  20  17:47  Taiwan      7.7     
56  38%F  1999  Oct  16   9:46  California  7.2
57  17%F  1999  Nov  12  16:57  Turkey      7.2
58  79%L  2001  Jan  13  17:33  El Salvador 7.7
59   2%   2001  Jan  26   3:16  India       7.7
60   1%   2002  Nov   3  22:12  Alaska      7.9
61  48%L  2003  Nov  17   6:43  Alaska      7.8
 
tchannel wrote:
Stephen and Everyone,  This is just great input....Stephen, Yes I sure would like to see your study expanded to include M6 and M7's.   I printed you message.   I wish I know something about Statistics.
Thanks, Ted
Subject: Inverse filter for seismic sensors. From: Bobhelenmcclure@....... Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 22:19:04 EDT I am an amateur seismographer, located in Locust Valley, NY. My station consists of home built sensors of rather short natural period. Out of necessity, I have developed a digital inverse filter, which allows extension of the natural period of the sensors to five or more times their natural period. It took a lot of grunting and straining to perfect this filter, and I want to share it with anybody who could benefit. It ended up being simple to code and use. All you need to set it up is the natural period and damping of the sensor, and the desired filter period. It can be used in real time or on completed files. In case you have any need to enhance the performance of geophones or any other open loop sensor you operate, please refer to web page _http://www.jclahr.com/science/psn/mcclure/filter.html_ (http://www.jclahr.com/science/psn/mcclure/filter.html) This page describes the analog prototype of the filter and the pseudocode for its digital version. A mathematical analysis demonstrates that the filter's frequency response is correct. This filter is implemented in my programs "WQFilter.exe" and "Heliplot.exe", which can be downloaded from _http://www.jclahr.com/science/psn/mcclure/wdq_utilities/index.html_ (http://www.jclahr.com/science/psn/mcclure/wdq_utilities/index.html) "WQFilter.exe" is a utility program for filtering WinQuake PSN Type 4 event files. "Heliplot.exe" is a program for filtering and displaying Dataq WQD format files. It would be easy for me to code these applications for other file formats, including Little Endian SAC binary files. Dr. Alan Jones has also incorporated this filter into "AmaSeis.exe" for filtering SAC binary format event files. However, the version he has coded is no longer up-to-date, and the response is not quite so accurate as the latest version. All my applications are written using Visual Basic 6.0 for Windows. Alan is currently re-coding Amaseis using Java, so that it can be compiled for other operating systems. Please note that "WQFilter.exe" also includes Butterworth filters for lowpass and highpass filtering. Forward, backward, and forward-backward filtering can be selected. If you apply both my period extending filter and a second order highpass backward filter to the event data, you can end up with a broader bandwidth file which has no phase distortion and no time delay in the passband. Robert (Bob) McClure ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
  I am an amateur seismographer, located in Locust Valley, NY. My=20 station consists of home built sensors of rather short natural period. Out o= f=20 necessity, I have developed a digital inverse filter, which allows extension= of=20 the natural period of the sensors to five or more times their natural period= .. It=20 took a lot of grunting and straining to perfect this filter, and I want to s= hare=20 it with anybody who could benefit. It ended up being simple to code and use.= All=20 you need to set it up is the natural period and damping of the sensor, and t= he=20 desired filter period. It can be used in real time or on completed files.
 
  In case you have any need to enhance the performance of geophone= s or=20 any other open loop sensor you operate, please refer to web page
 
  http://www.jc= lahr.com/science/psn/mcclure/filter.html
 
  This page describes the analog prototype of the filter and the=20 pseudocode for its digital version. A mathematical analysis demonstrates tha= t=20 the filter's frequency response is correct.
 
  This filter is implemented in my programs "WQFilter.exe" and=20 "Heliplot.exe", which can be downloaded from
 
  = http://www.jclahr.com/science/psn/mcclure/wdq_utilities/index.html
 
  "WQFilter.exe" is a utility program for filtering WinQuake PSN T= ype=20 4 event files. "Heliplot.exe" is a program for filtering and displaying Data= q=20 WQD format files. It would be easy for me to code these applications for oth= er=20 file formats, including Little Endian SAC binary files.
 
  Dr. Alan Jones has also incorporated this filter into "AmaSeis.e= xe"=20 for filtering SAC binary format event files. However, the version he has cod= ed=20 is no longer up-to-date, and the response is not quite so accurate as the la= test=20 version.
 
  All my applications are written using Visual Basic 6.0 for Windo= ws.=20 Alan is currently re-coding Amaseis using Java, so that it can be compiled f= or=20 other operating systems.
 
  Please note that "WQFilter.exe" also includes Butterworth filter= s=20 for lowpass and highpass filtering. Forward, backward, and forward-backward=20 filtering can be selected. If you apply both my period extending filter and=20= a=20 second order highpass backward filter to the event data, you can end up with= a=20 broader bandwidth file which has no phase distortion and no time delay = in=20 the passband.
 
Robert (Bob) McClure



=
See what's free at AOL.com.
Subject: Unknown earthquake From: "tchannel" tchannel@.............. Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 09:07:49 -0600 Hi folks, At 04:33:13 UTC on 2007/04/24 I receive a moderate/light = earthquake trace. I went to the USGS and see nothing posted for that time, except 3.7M at = 04:24:09 In Alaska. I guess that must be it, but I was surprise that a = 3.7m was recorded from that distance, and that clear. At first glance, = I thought it was Local, somewhere near Idaho. I looked a Hailey Id. = station, and they saw it bigtime. Other stations, few reliable, in = this area, showed smaller recording. Has anyone seen this one, and is it the 3.7m from Alaska? I will = process it and see where the P and S fall. Thanks, Ted
Hi folks,  At 04:33:13 UTC on = 2007/04/24 I=20 receive a moderate/light earthquake trace.
I went to the USGS and see nothing = posted for that=20 time, except 3.7M at 04:24:09 In Alaska.  I guess that must be it, = but I=20 was surprise that a 3.7m was recorded from that distance, and that = clear. =20  At first glance, I thought it was Local, somewhere near = Idaho.  I=20 looked a Hailey Id. station, and they saw it bigtime.   Other=20 stations, few reliable, in this area, showed smaller=20 recording.
 
Has anyone seen this one, and is it the = 3.7m from=20 Alaska?   I will process it and see where the P and S=20 fall.
Thanks, Ted
Subject: Re: Unknown earthquake From: John or Jan Lahr JohnJan@........ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 09:14:44 -0700 At 08:07 AM 4/24/2007, you wrote: >Hi folks, At 04:33:13 UTC on 2007/04/24 I receive a moderate/light >earthquake trace. >I went to the USGS and see nothing posted for that time, except 3.7M >at 04:24:09 In Alaska. I guess that must be it, but I was surprise >that a 3.7m was recorded from that distance, and that clear. At >first glance, I thought it was Local, somewhere near Idaho. I >looked a Hailey Id. station, and they saw it bigtime. Other >stations, few reliable, in this area, showed smaller recording. > >Has anyone seen this one, and is it the 3.7m from Alaska? I will >process it and see where the P and S fall. >Thanks, Ted There appears to be a swarm of events on the mid-Atlantic ridge See: http://aslwww.cr.usgs.gov/Seismic_Data/telemetry_data/BBSR_24hr.html I don't see an event at 04:33 on 4/24 however. John __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Unknow earthquake From: "tchannel" tchannel@.............. Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:17:40 -0600 I processed this 04:24:09 Alaska Earthquake M3.7 My event was recorded 54 seconds later. I check my clock and it was accurate. This is new to me in, that, = first my trace looked too large for a M3.7 from Alaska. My trace arrived 54 seconds too late for Alaska. I have been looking and have found nothing, that matches. Any help = would be appreciated. Thanks, Ted
I processed this 04:24:09 Alaska = Earthquake=20 M3.7
My event was recorded 54 seconds=20 later.
I check my clock and it was = accurate.  =20 This is new to me in, that, first my trace looked too large for a M3.7 = from=20 Alaska.
My trace arrived 54 seconds too late = for=20 Alaska.
I have been looking and have found = nothing, that=20 matches.  Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks, Ted
 
Subject: Re: Unknown earthquake From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 10:01:19 -0700 I am at 33.42138N -111.57477W and as of 17:00 UTC have had nothing record with an MDL (Minimum Discernable Level) of 4.0 (Richter) at 6 degrees away. You can translate that sensitivity if you know how to other distances. My station is SPZ only. If you want to see a satellite image try out free GOOGLE EARTH they have a nice satellite image of my place there. ----- Original Message ----- From: "tchannel" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2007 08:07 Subject: Unknown earthquake Hi folks, At 04:33:13 UTC on 2007/04/24 I receive a moderate/light earthquake trace. I went to the USGS and see nothing posted for that time, except 3.7M at 04:24:09 In Alaska. I guess that must be it, but I was surprise that a 3.7m was recorded from that distance, and that clear. At first glance, I thought it was Local, somewhere near Idaho. I looked a Hailey Id. station, and they saw it bigtime. Other stations, few reliable, in this area, showed smaller recording. Has anyone seen this one, and is it the 3.7m from Alaska? I will process it and see where the P and S fall. Thanks, Ted __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Heliplot and filtering From: "Randy" rpratt@............. Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 13:09:48 -0500 Hi All, I have been using Bob's programs with the Dataq 154 for about 6 months. = The period extending filter is very useful with a short period = instrument such as the 1.35 sec vertical I finished this winter. I have = also found advantages that Bob has not mentioned using the logger and = heliplot programs. With heliplot I can view 2 or more filters on the = same channel simultaniously either while recording or from history. = Also, I can view 1 to 4 channels real time from one AD and com port. = Finally, I can export directly from Heliplot to create a single channel = filtered file and bypass having to split the Windaq format into single = channels if I wish to convert to PSN format. I have really appreciated = the ability to get full use of the Dataq device.
Hi All,
 
I have been using Bob's programs with = the Dataq 154=20 for about 6 months.  The period extending filter is very useful = with a=20 short period instrument such as the 1.35 sec vertical I finished this=20 winter.  I have also found advantages that Bob has not mentioned = using the=20 logger and heliplot programs.  With heliplot I can view 2 or more = filters=20 on the same channel simultaniously either while recording or from = history. =20 Also, I can view 1 to 4 channels real time from one AD and com = port. =20 Finally, I can export directly from Heliplot to create a single channel = filtered=20 file and bypass having to split the Windaq format into single channels = if I wish=20 to convert to PSN format.  I have really appreciated the ability to = get=20 full use of the Dataq device. 
Subject: Re: Unknow earthquake From: "Dave Wolny" dwolny@............. Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 15:44:17 -0600 Ted, Looks like this event is much closer to you then Alaska. Check out the = following helicorder at University of Utah (Hansel Valley). =20 http://www.seis.utah.edu/helicorder/heli/utah/Uuss.HVU_SHZ_UU.2007042300.gi= f =20 The event should have an OT of around 04:33+ Dave >>> "tchannel" 04/24/07 10:17 AM >>> I processed this 04:24:09 Alaska Earthquake M3.7 My event was recorded 54 seconds later. I check my clock and it was accurate. This is new to me in, that, first = my trace looked too large for a M3.7 from Alaska. My trace arrived 54 seconds too late for Alaska. I have been looking and have found nothing, that matches. Any help would = be appreciated. Thanks, Ted __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Inverse filter for seismic sensors. From: "Jim ODonnell" geophysics@.......... Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 22:27:29 GMT Hi Bob- Well your timing is good. = I am getting ready to deploy 3 BH seismometers down hole and am using th= e Mark Products L15B (4.5Hz) elements. Two deployments will be at the S= kyWalk Bridge, AZ and 1 at the new NV State College in Henderson. The L15B goes for ~$100/component where the better L4 (1Hz) is ~$1K/comp= onent and is a much larger size than the geophone. You essentially have turned my L15 geophones into a L4...T~0.2s to 1s. = I will let you know how your filter works and THANKS......Jim Jim O'Donnell = Geological/Geophysical Consultant GEOTECHNICAL APPLICATIONS 702.293.5664 geophysics@.......... 702.281.9081 cell jimo17@........ -- Bobhelenmcclure@....... wrote: I am an amateur seismographer, located in Locust Valley, NY. My statio= n consists of home built sensors of rather short natural period. Out of = necessity, I have developed a digital inverse filter, which allows exten= sion of the natural period of the sensors to five or more times their na= tural period. It took a lot of grunting and straining to perfect this fi= lter, and I want to share it with anybody who could benefit. It ended up= being simple to code and use. All you need to set it up is the natural = period and damping of the sensor, and the desired filter period. It can = be used in real time or on completed files. In case you have any need = to enhance the performance of geophones or any other open loop sensor yo= u operate, please refer to web page http://www.jclahr.com/science/psn= /mcclure/filter.html This page describes the analog prototype of the f= ilter and the pseudocode for its digital version. A mathematical analysi= s demonstrates that the filter's frequency response is correct. This f= ilter is implemented in my programs "WQFilter.exe" and "Heliplot.exe", w= hich can be downloaded from http://www.jclahr.com/science/psn/mcclure/= wdq_utilities/index.html "WQFilter.exe" is a utility program for filte= ring WinQuake PSN Type 4 event files. "Heliplot.exe" is a program for fi= ltering and displaying Dataq WQD format files. It would be easy for me t= o code these applications for other file formats, including Little Endia= n SAC binary files. Dr. Alan Jones has also incorporated this filter i= nto "AmaSeis.exe" for filtering SAC binary format event files. However, = the version he has coded is no longer up-to-date, and the response is no= t quite so accurate as the latest version. All my applications are wri= tten using Visual Basic 6.0 for Windows. Alan is currently re-coding Ama= seis using Java, so that it can be compiled for other operating systems.= Please note that "WQFilter.exe" also includes Butterworth filters for= lowpass and highpass filtering. Forward, backward, and forward-backward= filtering can be selected. If you apply both my period extending filter= and a second order highpass backward filter to the event data, you can = end up with a broader bandwidth file which has no phase distortion and n= o time delay in the passband. Robert (Bob) McClure See what's free at AOL.com.

Hi Bob- Well your timing is good.  
I am getting r= eady to deploy 3 BH seismometers down hole and am using the Mark Product= s L15B (4.5Hz) elements.  Two deployments will be at the SkyWalk Br= idge, AZ and 1 at the new NV State College in Henderson.

The L15B goes for ~$100/component where the better L4 (1Hz) is ~$1K/c= omponent and is a much larger size than the geophone.
You essentially= have turned my L15 geophones into a L4...T~0.2s to 1s. 
I will = let you know how your filter works and THANKS......Jim




         &nb= sp;         Jim O'Donn= ell     
      = ;   Geological/Geophysical Consultant
  = ;          GEOTECHNICA= L APPLICATIONS
702.293.5664     geophysics@m= ysite.com
702.281.9081 cell   jimo17@........
=
-- Bobhelenmcclure@....... wrote:

  I am an amateur seismographer, located in Locust Valley, NY.= My station consists of home built sensors of rather short natural perio= d. Out of necessity, I have developed a digital inverse filter, which al= lows extension of the natural period of the sensors to five or more time= s their natural period. It took a lot of grunting and straining to perfe= ct this filter, and I want to share it with anybody who could benefit. I= t ended up being simple to code and use. All you need to set it up is th= e natural period and damping of the sensor, and the desired filter perio= d. It can be used in real time or on completed files.
 
  In case you have any need to enhance the performance of geop= hones or any other open loop sensor you operate, please refer to web pag= e
 
 
  This page describes the analog prototype of the filter and t= he pseudocode for its digital version. A mathematical analysis demonstra= tes that the filter's frequency response is correct.
 
  This filter is implemented in my programs "WQFilter.exe" and= "Heliplot.exe", which can be downloaded from
 
 
  "WQFilter.exe" is a utility program for filtering WinQuake P= SN Type 4 event files. "Heliplot.exe" is a program for filtering and dis= playing Dataq WQD format files. It would be easy for me to code these ap= plications for other file formats, including Little Endian SAC binary fi= les.
 
  Dr. Alan Jones has also incorporated this filter into "AmaSe= is.exe" for filtering SAC binary format event files. However, the versio= n he has coded is no longer up-to-date, and the response is not quite so= accurate as the latest version.
 
  All my applications are written using Visual Basic 6.0 for W= indows. Alan is currently re-coding Amaseis using Java, so that it can b= e compiled for other operating systems.
 
  Please note that "WQFilter.exe" also includes Butterworth fi= lters for lowpass and highpass filtering. Forward, backward, and forward= -backward filtering can be selected. If you apply both my period extendi= ng filter and a second order highpass backward filter to the event data,= you can end up with a broader bandwidth file which has no phase distort= ion and no time delay in the passband.
 
Robert (Bob) McClure



See what's free at AOL.com.
Subject: My error From: "tchannel" tchannel@.............. Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2007 17:30:22 -0600 Hi Folk, I think I have found my mystery earthquake. It was the M3.7 = 04/24/2007 04:24:09 utc from Alaska This is what happen, "someone might learn from my mistake" I adjust my = clock manually, often it is off by many seconds, I advance the clock to = the next minute, and when the times match I push "okay" to reset my = computer clock, to the correct time. Works fine unless I put in an = extra minute. So instead of an adjustment of + 4 second I adjusted +64 = seconds. I went to the second station, we are operating, at the Museum. That = station recorded the same event and the P and S were placed correctly. = I was sure my problem had to do with my equipment, and this event was = surely the Alaska M3.7 I made an clock adjustment of +64 seconds to my station and the P and S = were right on. The thing that fooled me was I could not believe a M 3.7 from Alaska = 4816km or 2992 miles from Boise was so pronounced. Thanks, for you advise. Ted
Hi Folk,  I think I have = found  my=20 mystery earthquake.  It was the  M3.7 04/24/2007 04:24:09 utc = from=20 Alaska
 
This is what happen, "someone might = learn from my=20 mistake"  I adjust my clock manually, often it is off by many = seconds, I=20 advance the clock to the next minute, and when the times match I push = "okay" to=20 reset my computer clock, to the correct time.  Works fine unless I = put in=20 an extra minute.  So instead of an adjustment of + 4 second I = adjusted +64=20 seconds.
 
I went to the second station, we are = operating, at=20 the Museum.  That station recorded the same event and the P and S = were=20 placed correctly.  I was sure my problem had to do with my = equipment, and=20 this event was surely the Alaska  M3.7
 
I made an clock adjustment of +64 = seconds to my=20 station and the P and S were right on.
 
The thing that fooled me was I could = not believe a=20 M 3.7 from Alaska 4816km or 2992 miles from Boise was so=20 pronounced.
 
 
Thanks, for you advise.  =20 Ted
Subject: Re: My error From: Angel sismos@.............. Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 00:10:23 +0000

Hello Ted,


Is your "seismo computer" on the internet even for a few minutes a day?? You could then use any of many time servers to set the clock on that computer.  There is even software that learns the drift of your clock and tries to keep it in closer time than a few seconds.


Angel


Tuesday, April 24, 2007, 11:30:22 PM, you wrote:


>

Hi Folk,  I think I have found  my mystery earthquake.  It was the  M3.7 04/24/2007 04:24:09 utc from Alaska

 

This is what happen, "someone might learn from my mistake"  I adjust my clock manually, often it is off by many seconds, I advance the clock to the next minute, and when the times match I push "okay" to reset my computer clock, to the correct time.  Works fine unless I put in an extra minute.  So instead of an adjustment of + 4 second I adjusted +64 seconds.

 

I went to the second station, we are operating, at the Museum.  That station recorded the same event and the P and S were placed correctly.  I was sure my problem had to do with my equipment, and this event was surely the Alaska  M3.7

 

I made an clock adjustment of +64 seconds to my station and the P and S were right on.

 

The thing that fooled me was I could not believe a M 3.7 from Alaska 4816km or 2992 miles from Boise was so pronounced.

 

 

Thanks, for you advise.   Ted





-- 

Best regards,

 Angel

Subject: Re: My error From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 10:34:32 EDT In a message dated 2007/04/25, tchannel@.............. writes: > I adjust my clock manually, often it is off by many seconds, I advance the > clock to the next minute, and when the times match I push "okay" to reset my > computer clock, to the correct time. Works fine unless I put in an extra > minute. So instead of an adjustment of + 4 second I adjusted +64 seconds. Hi Ted, You can get details of time servers from http://tf.nist.gov/timefreq/index.html A good free server is AboutTime See http://www.arachnoid.com/abouttime/ It sends you the correct time, your computer then 'pings' AboutTime, which returns the signal immediatly, allowing your computer to measure and correct for time delays on the line. It is possible to buy a WWVB time receiver which automatically corrects your computer or network. Another alternative is to buy one of the Radio Corrected WWVB wall clocks with a sweep second hand. You can fit a LED and a photocell on the dial and sense the second hand for the minute marks. Bob does this Bobhelenmc clure@....... - you need a large second hand to do this, or an Al foil extension. I am not sure what software he uses. I seem to remember that you can also buy the radio PCB and a computer board to decode WWVB signals from Galleon at http://www.ntp-time-server.com/ These are produced in Germany for all radio time systems. I use a similar system on DCF77 in Europe. Regards, Chris Chapman In a me= ssage dated 2007/04/25, tchannel@.............. writes:

I adjust my clock manually, oft= en it is off by many seconds, I advance the clock to the next minute, and wh= en the times match I push "okay" to reset my computer clock, to the correct=20= time.  Works fine unless I put in an extra minute.  So instead of=20= an adjustment of + 4 second I adjusted +64 seconds.


Hi Ted,

       You can get details of time servers fro= m http://tf.nist.gov/timefreq/index.html

       A good free server is AboutTime See http://www.arachnoid.com/aboutt= ime/
       It sends you the correct time, your com= puter then 'pings' AboutTime, which returns the signal immediatly, allowing=20= your computer to measure and correct for time delays on the line.

    It is possible to buy a WWVB time receiver which automati= cally  corrects your computer or network.

       Another alternative is to buy one of th= e Radio Corrected WWVB wall clocks with a sweep second hand. You can fit a L= ED and a photocell on the dial and sense the second hand for the minute mark= s. Bob does this Bobhelenmcclure@....... - you need a large second hand to d= o this, or an Al foil extension. I am not sure what software he uses.
  
       I seem to remember that you can also bu= y the radio PCB and a computer board to decode WWVB signals from Galleon at=20= http://www.ntp-time-server.com/ These are produced in Germany for all radio=20= time systems. I use a similar system on DCF77 in Europe.

       Regards,

       Chris Chapman
 Subject: Re: My error From: "Kris Paige" bluegrey@............. Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2007 11:35:59 -0800 who are you guys trying to communicate w/ I don't know you!! ----- Original Message -----=20 From: ChrisAtUpw@.......... To: psn-l@................. Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 6:34 AM Subject: Re: My error In a message dated 2007/04/25, tchannel@.............. writes: I adjust my clock manually, often it is off by many seconds, I = advance the clock to the next minute, and when the times match I push = "okay" to reset my computer clock, to the correct time. Works fine = unless I put in an extra minute. So instead of an adjustment of + 4 = second I adjusted +64 seconds. Hi Ted, You can get details of time servers from = http://tf.nist.gov/timefreq/index.html A good free server is AboutTime See = http://www.arachnoid.com/abouttime/=20 It sends you the correct time, your computer then 'pings' = AboutTime, which returns the signal immediatly, allowing your computer = to measure and correct for time delays on the line. It is possible to buy a WWVB time receiver which automatically = corrects your computer or network.=20 Another alternative is to buy one of the Radio Corrected WWVB = wall clocks with a sweep second hand. You can fit a LED and a photocell = on the dial and sense the second hand for the minute marks. Bob does = this Bobhelenmcclure@....... - you need a large second hand to do this, = or an Al foil extension. I am not sure what software he uses. =20 I seem to remember that you can also buy the radio PCB and a = computer board to decode WWVB signals from Galleon at = http://www.ntp-time-server.com/ These are produced in Germany for all = radio time systems. I use a similar system on DCF77 in Europe. Regards, Chris Chapman
who are you guys trying to communicate = w/ I don't=20 know you!!
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 ChrisAtUpw@.......
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 = 6:34=20 AM
Subject: Re: My error

In a=20 message dated 2007/04/25, tchannel@..............=20 writes:

I adjust my clock manually, often it is off by many = seconds, I=20 advance the clock to the next minute, and when the times match I = push "okay"=20 to reset my computer clock, to the correct time.  Works fine = unless I=20 put in an extra minute.  So instead of an adjustment of + 4 = second I=20 adjusted +64 seconds.

Hi=20 Ted,

       You can get details = of time=20 servers from=20 = http://tf.nist.gov/timefreq/index.html

    &nb= sp; =20 A good free server is AboutTime See http://www.arachnoid.com/abo= uttime/=20
       It sends you the correct = time, your=20 computer then 'pings' AboutTime, which returns the signal immediatly, = allowing=20 your computer to measure and correct for time delays on the=20 line.

    It is possible to buy a WWVB time = receiver=20 which automatically  corrects your computer or network.=20

       Another alternative is to = buy one=20 of the Radio Corrected WWVB wall clocks with a sweep second hand. You = can fit=20 a LED and a photocell on the dial and sense the second hand for the = minute=20 marks. Bob does this Bobhelenmcclure@....... - you need a large second = hand to=20 do this, or an Al foil extension. I am not sure what software he=20 uses.
  
       I seem = to=20 remember that you can also buy the radio PCB and a computer board to = decode=20 WWVB signals from Galleon at http://www.ntp-time-server.com/ These are = produced in Germany for all radio time systems. I use a similar system = on=20 DCF77 in Europe.

      =20 Regards,

       Chris=20 Chapman
 Subject: Seismology Books Suggestions From: "Rex Klopfenstein" rklopfen@......... Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 20:39:57 -0400 All I have a copy of "Modern Global Seismology" by Lay & Wallace. I am looking for suggestions of book titles on seismology. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Rex Klopfenstein Bowling Green, OH 43402

All

I have a copy of “Modern Global = Seismology” by Lay & Wallace.  I am looking for suggestions of book titles on = seismology.  Any suggestions would be greatly = appreciated.

Thanks

 

Rex Klopfenstein

Bowling = Green, OH  43402

 

Subject: Re: Seismology Books Suggestions From: Angel sismos@.............. Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 01:04:31 +0000

Hello Rex,


I have lots of books on Seismology, lots, but the one that really got me going and fascinates me every time I read it is


Ota Kulhanek's book "anatomy of seismograms"  it is still in print and still being sold for a ridiculously high price. 


It is basic, simple, clear and full of examples.  If only everyone would be so clear.  178 pages and sells for a little under a dollar a page.  Mine was a gift or I might never have bought it.


Angel


Friday, April 27, 2007, 12:39:57 AM, you wrote:


>

All

I have a copy of “Modern Global Seismology” by Lay & Wallace.  I am looking for suggestions of book titles on seismology.  Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

 

Rex Klopfenstein

Bowling Green, OH  43402

 





-- 

Best regards,

 Angel

Subject: Re: Seismology Books Suggestions From: Angel sismos@.............. Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 01:24:45 +0000

Hello Rex and everyone,


I guess that is must not be in print because I just serached for it and found these two items:


http://product.half.ebay.com/Anatomy-of-Seismograms_W0QQtgZinfoQQprZ652217


http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0444883754/ref=dp_olp_1/103-1726741-7299048



If this is the case maybe I will scan mine and make it available to the list, I have to think a bit about this.


angel




Friday, April 27, 2007, 12:39:57 AM, you wrote:


>

All

I have a copy of “Modern Global Seismology” by Lay & Wallace.  I am looking for suggestions of book titles on seismology.  Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

 

Rex Klopfenstein

Bowling Green, OH  43402

 





-- 

Best regards,

 Angel

Subject: Re: Seismology Books Suggestions From: "Jim ODonnell" geophysics@.......... Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 02:24:03 GMT Look at any of Bruce Bolt's books on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/002-3142573-1306440?= %5Fencoding=3DUTF8&search-type=3Dss&index=3Dbooks&field-author=3DBruce%2= 0Bolt Jim O'Donnell = Geological/Geophysical Consultant GEOTECHNICAL APPLICATIONS 702.293.5664 geophysics@.......... 702.281.9081 cell jimo17@........ -- "Rex Klopfenstein" wrote: All I have a copy of =93Modern Global Seismology=94 by Lay & Wallace. I am = looking for suggestions of book titles on seismology. Any suggestions w= ould be greatly appreciated. Thanks = Rex Klopfenstein Bowling Green, OH 43402 =

Look at any of Bruce Bolt's books on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/searc= h-handle-url/002-3142573-1306440?%5Fencoding=3DUTF8&search-type=3Dss= &index=3Dbooks&field-author=3DBruce%20Bolt




         &nb= sp;         Jim O'Donn= ell     
      = ;   Geological/Geophysical Consultant
  = ;          GEOTECHNICA= L APPLICATIONS
702.293.5664     geophysics@m= ysite.com
702.281.9081 cell   jimo17@........
=
-- "Rex Klopfenstein" <rklopfen@.........> = ;wrote:

All

I have a copy of =93Modern Global Seismolog= y=94 by Lay & Wallace.  I am looking for suggestions of book ti= tles on seismology.  Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.<= o:p>

Thanks

 

Rex Klopfenstein

Bowling Green, OH  43402

 

Subject: RE: Seismology Books Suggestions From: "Bob Hancock" carpediem1@......... Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 20:33:42 -0700 Everyone - I had been searching for a copy of ANATOMY OF SEISMOGRAMS for several years. I would search on both Google and various book searches, and recently found it in a bookstore in the UK. It was a new copy with only shelf wear. The price was about $250, and my wife has demanded equal time. Keep looking, as this book appears to come up from time to time, and is truly one of the best, if not the best for seismogram interpretation. Another source for this book may be a university library. I found it in the University of Arizona (UA) library - however some schools have expensive library cards. When they raised the annual fee for a library card (non-student) from $60.00 to $100.00, I dropped the card. However, you should be able to enter their libraries for free and make copies of the areas you want for pennies per page. I have done that from time to time at the UA. Some other books to consider: WHOLE EARTH GEOPHYSICS - by Robert J. Lillie - It gives a good intro, and is light on math. This is used in introductory Geophysics courses. THE SEISMIC WAVEFIELD - by B.L.N. Kennett - This comes in two volumes - Volume 1 - Introduction and Theoretical Development (heavy on math), and Volume 2 Interpretation of Seismograms on Regional and Global Scales - I found this to be a good reference and the math is much reduced from Volume 1. AN INTRODUCTION TO SEISMOLOGY, EARTHQUAKES, and EARTH STRUCTURE - by Seth Stein and Michael Wysession - This is an introductory seismology text book used in several schools. The math in it is moderate, but there are many sections that are light on math. Another good reference book. THE MECHANICS OF EARTHQUAKES AND FAULTING - by Christopher H. Scholz - Another good reference book - Overall very light on math. INTRODUCTION TO SEISMOLOGY - by Peter M. Shearer - Another good reference book, but above average in math - I would class it as between moderate and heavy. PLATE TECTONICS - An Insider's History of the Modern Theory of the Earth - by Naomi Oreskes - An EXCELLENT book for the background on plate tectonics. Gives a good foundation in this subject. A BOOK TO AVOID - Unless you have a degree in mathematics: SEISMIC WAVES and SOURCES - by Ari Ben-Menahem and Sarva Jit Singh - VERY HEAVY IN MATH . I hope this helps. Bob Hancock Three Points, AZ _____ From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Rex Klopfenstein Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 17:40 To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Seismology Books Suggestions All I have a copy of "Modern Global Seismology" by Lay & Wallace. I am looking for suggestions of book titles on seismology. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Rex Klopfenstein Bowling Green, OH 43402

Everyone = –

 

I had been searching for a copy of = ANATOMY OF SEISMOGRAMS for several years.  I would search on both Google = and various book searches, and recently found it in a bookstore in the = UK.  It was a new copy with only shelf wear.  The price was about $250, and = my wife has demanded equal time.  Keep looking, as this book appears = to come up from time to time, and is truly one of the best, if not the best for seismogram interpretation. 

 

Another source for this book may be = a university library.  I found it in the University of Arizona (UA) library = – however some schools have expensive library cards.  When they raised the = annual fee for a library card (non-student) from $60.00 to $100.00, I dropped = the card.  However, you should be able to enter their libraries for = free and make copies of the areas you want for pennies per page.  I have = done that from time to time at the UA.

 

Some other books to = consider:

 

WHOLE EARTH GEOPHYSICS – by = Robert J. Lillie - It gives a good intro, and is light on math.  This is = used in introductory Geophysics courses. 

 

THE SEISMIC WAVEFIELD – by = B.L.N. Kennett – This comes in two volumes – Volume 1 – Introduction = and Theoretical Development (heavy on math), and Volume 2 Interpretation of Seismograms on Regional and Global Scales – I found this to be a = good reference and the math is much reduced from Volume = 1.

 

AN INTRODUCTION TO SEISMOLOGY, = EARTHQUAKES, and EARTH STRUCTURE – by Seth Stein and Michael Wysession – = This is an introductory seismology text book used in several schools.  The = math in it is moderate, but there are many sections that are light on = math.  Another good reference book.

 

THE MECHANICS OF EARTHQUAKES AND = FAULTING – by Christopher H. Scholz – Another good reference book – = Overall very light on math.

 

INTRODUCTION TO SEISMOLOGY – = by Peter M. Shearer – Another good reference book, but above average in = math – I would class it as between moderate and = heavy.

 

PLATE TECTONICS – An = Insider’s History of the Modern Theory of the Earth – by Naomi Oreskes = – An EXCELLENT book for the background on plate tectonics.  Gives a good = foundation in this subject.

 

A BOOK TO AVOID – Unless you = have a degree in mathematics:

 

SEISMIC WAVES and SOURCES – = by Ari Ben-Menahem and Sarva Jit Singh – VERY HEAVY IN MATH = ..

 

I hope this = helps.

 

Bob = Hancock

Three Points, = AZ

 

From: = psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Rex Klopfenstein
Sent: Thursday, April 26, = 2007 17:40
To: = psn-l@..............
Subject: Seismology Books Suggestions

 

All

I have a copy of “Modern Global = Seismology” by Lay & Wallace.  I am looking for suggestions of book titles on seismology.  Any suggestions would be greatly = appreciated.

Thanks

 

Rex Klopfenstein

Bowling = Green, OH  43402

 

Subject: Loudspeader Seismograph From: "Arie Verveer" greensky@.............. Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 11:45:12 +0800 Hi, The "May 2007" issue of "elektor electronics" magazine, contains an article using a loudspeaker as a vibration sensor (seismograph). Plus an article on ELF reception and a magnetometer. www.elektor-electronics.co.uk May be of interest ? Cheers Arie __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Fwd: Loudspeader Seismograph From: John or Jan Lahr JohnJan@........ Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 22:43:35 -0700 Hi Lars, What can you tell me about the seismic system that's being sold via Elektor? Do you have any seismograms of recorded earthquakes? Have you considered joining the Public Seismic Network to share your experience and plans? What software is required for compilation? Some of the zip files require a password. Why is that? Thanks, John Lahr >X-Original-To: jclahr >Delivered-To: jclahr@.................. >Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 11:45:12 +0800 >To: PSN >Subject: Loudspeader Seismograph >From: "Arie Verveer" >Organization: Space Ship Earth >User-Agent: Opera Mail/9.20 (Win32) >Reply-To: psn-l@.............. >Sender: psn-l-request@.............. >X-RCPT-TO: >X-SA-Poll-Id: 1177645713840..428254594..1..1177645512000 >X-SA-USERIDNR: 3394894 >X-SA-MPREASON: enabled mailing list (psn-l@............... > >Hi, The "May 2007" issue of "elektor electronics" >magazine, contains an article using a loudspeaker >as a vibration sensor (seismograph). Plus an article >on ELF reception and a magnetometer. > >www.elektor-electronics.co.uk > > >May be of interest ? > > >Cheers Arie > > > > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body >of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Fwd: Loudspeader Seismograph re: the Elektor magnetometer article From: "Charles R. Patton" charles.r.patton@........ Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 12:07:37 -0700 Don't waste your money on this article. It is done using a coil salvaged from a transformer fed to an amplifier with lots of gain. Strictly AC, no DC response possible. I consider the definition of "magnetometer" requires DC response. Misleading advertising. As additional criticism, using a small coil salvaged from a transformer has very little window area (limiting the "effective antenna height" acting as another limit) if you intend to receive ELF. Bah, humbug, $2 wasted. Charles Patton >> Hi, The "May 2007" issue of "elektor electronics" >> magazine, contains an article using a loudspeaker >> as a vibration sensor (seismograph). Plus an article >> on ELF reception and a magnetometer. >> >> www.elektor-electronics.co.uk >> >> >> May be of interest ? >> >> >> Cheers Arie >> >> >> >> >> __________________________________________________________ >> >> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >> >> To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body >> of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of > the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Fwd: Loudspeader Seismograph re: the Elektor magnetometer article From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 00:03:50 -0700 Why Doesnt anyone ever talk Hall-Effect or Strain Guage or Variable Resistance or magnetic levitation like you take up most the strain with a spring but levitate grain or so with an electro magnet to counter gravity and set the period ?? You can use some kind of PID (Proportional Integral Derivative) Like the cruise control of an automobile to set the operational point ?? If I had cash I would try some of these but you need to have a PHD in Physics to get a Government Grant. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles R. Patton" To: Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 12:07 Subject: Re: Fwd: Loudspeader Seismograph re: the Elektor magnetometer article > Don't waste your money on this article. It is done using a coil salvaged from a transformer fed to an amplifier with lots of > gain. Strictly AC, no DC response possible. I consider the definition of "magnetometer" requires DC response. Misleading > advertising. As additional criticism, using a small coil salvaged from a transformer has very little window area (limiting the > "effective antenna height" acting as another limit) if you intend to receive ELF. Bah, humbug, $2 wasted. > Charles Patton >>> Hi, The "May 2007" issue of "elektor electronics" >>> magazine, contains an article using a loudspeaker >>> as a vibration sensor (seismograph). Plus an article >>> on ELF reception and a magnetometer. >>> >>> www.elektor-electronics.co.uk >>> >>> >>> May be of interest ? >>> >>> >>> Cheers Arie >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> __________________________________________________________ >>> >>> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >>> >>> To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >>> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >> >> >> __________________________________________________________ >> >> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >> >> To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >> > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Mag 5 Earthquake in UK From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 08:22:27 +0000 Hi all This dosen't happen often. But this morning at 07:18 there was a mag 5 earthquake in the UK. See more here, http://www.emsc-csem.org/index.php?page=3Dcurrent&sub=3Ddetail&id=3D42748 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6602677.stm Regards. --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann http://www.jonfr.com http://www.simnet.is/jonfr500/earthquake/ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Mag 5 Earthquake in UK From: Tangazazen@....... Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 06:06:28 EDT Hi. Being based in Ashford Kent I certainly did pick it up. As my broadband seismometer was recording from 0.1 to 0.02 Hz the trace is not large but very distict. A very rare event indeed, about 10km below Romany Marsh and should have woken up a few sheep. Martin Page
Hi.
   Being based in Ashford Kent I certainly did pick it up. As= my=20 broadband seismometer was recording from 0.1 to 0.02 Hz the trace is not lar= ge=20 but very distict. A very rare event indeed, about 10km below Romany Mar= sh=20 and should have woken up a few sheep.
 
 
Martin Page  
 Subject: Re: Mag 4.9 Earthquake in UK From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 10:57:58 +0000 Hi Too bad that you don't have a short period device. I did notice that the earthquake apppeared well in the Netherlands on a station that is there. I am surpriced by the reported damage, but according to BBC News 24 ( http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6602677.stm) and Sky News there appears to be a lot of damage in towns closest to the epicenter. I do expect aftershocks there, but far as history goes. It might not happen at all. But the earthquake is happening on a old faultline that lies there. EMSC has downgraded the earthquake to 4.9ML. Regards. --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann http://www.jonfr.com http://www.simnet.is/jonfr500/earthquake/ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Mag 4.9 Earthquake in UK From: Tangazazen@....... Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 07:15:09 EDT Hi, I have only one a channel recorder but have now switched to the 5 -1 Hz band, so may be I'll pick up possible after shocks. Martin Page
Hi,
     I have only one a channel recorder but have no= w=20 switched to the 5 -1 Hz band, so may be I'll pick up possible after=20 shocks.
 
 
Martin Page 
 Subject: How to bolt a geophone to the floor ? From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 15:30:14 +0000 Hi all How can I bolt (stuck) a geophone down to a floor plate so it doesn't move in a case of a large earthquake ? I am preparing to setup a second earthquake station in a friends place. He is a lot closer to major earthquake zones then I am and large earthquakes can make thing shake in his area and move objects around. Regards. --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann http://www.jonfr.com http://www.simnet.is/jonfr500/earthquake/ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: How to bolt a geophone to the floor ? From: Angel sismos@.............. Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 17:49:26 +0000 Hello Jón, I have used silicone the kind that is used for sealing windows, but it doesn't work well with linux. It makes it so it will not move during a earthquake but you can get it up without too much trouble. angel Saturday, April 28, 2007, 3:30:14 PM, you wrote: > Hi all > How can I bolt (stuck) a geophone down to a floor plate so it doesn't > move in a case of a large earthquake ? > I am preparing to setup a second earthquake station in a friends place. > He is a lot closer to major earthquake zones then I am and large > earthquakes can make thing shake in his area and move objects around. > Regards. -- Best regards, Angel __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Loudspeader Seismograph re: the Elektor magnetometer article From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 14:32:22 EDT In a message dated 2007/04/28, gmvoeth@........... writes: > Why Doesnt anyone ever talk Hall-Effect or Strain Guage or Variable > Resistance or magnetic levitation like you take up most the strain with a spring but > levitate grain or so with an electro magnet to counter gravity and set the > period ? Hi Geoff, You would probably have to put the coil on the arm and the magnets on the baseplate. One of the problems is the relatively high drift of the magnet strength with temperature. Maintaining the field would take an appreciable amount of current from a highly regulated source. Putting magnetic components on a seismometer arm makes it liable to pick up a lot of interference signals. You would need to completely and effectively screen the sensor and this is not easy to do, or cheap. You can make Hall-Effect sensors, but to get good seismic sensitivity, you have to use strong magnets and the movement range is then less then +/-1 mm. Not a problem for a simple pendulum or a spring accelerometer. Strain gauges will not give you the signal to noise ratio necessary. Simple optical systems using a miniature tungsten filamant bulb, a moving slot shutter screen and two Si large area photocells connected differentially can give a better performance. Eg VTD34, BPW34 or larger. For a Lehman, you might choose 10mm or longer photo cells - see Silonex. I run the bulbs at about 0.8 of their rated voltage to give a very long and stable light output and use a voltage regulator + bypass transistor to do it. You need the large area photocells to get the S/N ratio up. The tiny 1mm square Si cells do NOT work well enough, particularly those in LED form cases with an end lens. Regards, Chris Chapman In a me= ssage dated 2007/04/28, gmvoeth@........... writes:

Why Doesnt anyone ever talk Hal= l-Effect or Strain Guage or Variable Resistance or magnetic levitation like=20= you take up most the strain with a spring but levitate grain or so with an e= lectro magnet to counter gravity and set the period ?


Hi Geoff,

       You would probably have to put the coil= on the arm and the magnets on the baseplate. One of the problems is the rel= atively high drift of the magnet strength with temperature. Maintaining the=20= field would take an appreciable amount of current from a highly regulated so= urce.
       Putting magnetic components on a seismo= meter arm makes it liable to pick up  a lot of interference signals. Yo= u would need to completely and effectively screen the sensor and this is not= easy to do, or cheap.
       You can make Hall-Effect sensors, but t= o get good seismic sensitivity, you have to use strong magnets and the movem= ent range is then less then +/-1 mm. Not a problem for a simple pendulum or=20= a spring accelerometer.
       Strain gauges will not give you the sig= nal to noise ratio necessary.
       Simple optical systems using a miniatur= e tungsten filamant bulb, a moving slot shutter screen and two Si large area= photocells connected differentially can give a better performance. Eg VTD34= , BPW34 or larger. For a Lehman, you might choose 10mm or longer photo cells= - see Silonex. I run the bulbs at about 0.8 of their rated voltage to give=20= a very long and stable light output and use a voltage regulator + bypass tra= nsistor to do it. You need the large area photocells to get the S/N ratio up= .. The tiny 1mm square Si cells do NOT work well enough, particularly those i= n LED form cases with an end lens. 

       Regards,

       Chris Chapman Subject: Re: How to bolt a geophone to the floor ? From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 14:38:41 EDT In a message dated 2007/04/28, jonfr@......... writes: > How can I bolt (stuck) a geophone down to a floor plate so it doesn't > move in a case of a large earthquake ? Hi Jon, I would use a mastic adhesive called BluTack or WhiteTack. It is a putty like adhesive material which never sets hard. I buy it from stationery and hardware suppliers. An alternative method would be to drill holes on the floor and fit rawlbolts and a metal strap over the top of the seismometer case. Regards, Chris Chapman In a me= ssage dated 2007/04/28, jonfr@......... writes:

How can I bolt (stuck) a geopho= ne down to a floor plate so it doesn't
move in a case of a large earthquake ?


Hi Jon,
      
       I would use a mastic adhesive called Bl= uTack or WhiteTack. It is a putty like adhesive material which never sets ha= rd. I buy it from stationery and hardware suppliers.
       An alternative method would be to drill= holes on the floor and fit rawlbolts and a metal strap over the top of the=20= seismometer case.

       Regards,

       Chris Chapman Subject: Re: Mag 4.9 Earthquake in UK From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 19:09:07 +0000 Hi all Emsc has put up a webpage about this earthquake. According to that webpage this earthquake was also felt in France. Here is the webpage. http://www.emsc-csem.org/index.php?page=3Dcurrent&sub=3Drecent&evt=3D200704= 28_UK I do not know if there are going to be more earthquakes there, it is possible. But I lack data to setup a theory to predict it. Regards. --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann http://www.jonfr.com http://www.simnet.is/jonfr500/earthquake/ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: How to bolt a geophone to the floor ? From: "Stephen Hammond" shammon1@............. Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 14:48:59 -0700 The guy's that worked at the USGS back in the late 80's mixed up a couple of cups of light plaster and glopped it on the cement floor and sat the geophone in it.=20 Steve Hammond PSN San Jose, Aptos, CA -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 8:30 AM To: PSN-Postlist Subject: How to bolt a geophone to the floor ? Hi all How can I bolt (stuck) a geophone down to a floor plate so it doesn't move in a case of a large earthquake ? I am preparing to setup a second earthquake station in a friends place. He is a lot closer to major earthquake zones then I am and large earthquakes can make thing shake in his area and move objects around. Regards. --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann http://www.jonfr.com http://www.simnet.is/jonfr500/earthquake/ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: Seismology Books Suggestions From: "Rex Klopfenstein" rklopfen@......... Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 18:07:52 -0400 I found a price for Anatomy of Seismographs at the publisher (www.elsevier.com ) for $140US _____ From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Bob Hancock Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 11:34 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: RE: Seismology Books Suggestions Everyone - I had been searching for a copy of ANATOMY OF SEISMOGRAMS for several years. I would search on both Google and various book searches, and recently found it in a bookstore in the UK. It was a new copy with only shelf wear. The price was about $250, and my wife has demanded equal time. Keep looking, as this book appears to come up from time to time, and is truly one of the best, if not the best for seismogram interpretation. Another source for this book may be a university library. I found it in the University of Arizona (UA) library - however some schools have expensive library cards. When they raised the annual fee for a library card (non-student) from $60.00 to $100.00, I dropped the card. However, you should be able to enter their libraries for free and make copies of the areas you want for pennies per page. I have done that from time to time at the UA. Some other books to consider: WHOLE EARTH GEOPHYSICS - by Robert J. Lillie - It gives a good intro, and is light on math. This is used in introductory Geophysics courses. THE SEISMIC WAVEFIELD - by B.L.N. Kennett - This comes in two volumes - Volume 1 - Introduction and Theoretical Development (heavy on math), and Volume 2 Interpretation of Seismograms on Regional and Global Scales - I found this to be a good reference and the math is much reduced from Volume 1. AN INTRODUCTION TO SEISMOLOGY, EARTHQUAKES, and EARTH STRUCTURE - by Seth Stein and Michael Wysession - This is an introductory seismology text book used in several schools. The math in it is moderate, but there are many sections that are light on math. Another good reference book. THE MECHANICS OF EARTHQUAKES AND FAULTING - by Christopher H. Scholz - Another good reference book - Overall very light on math. INTRODUCTION TO SEISMOLOGY - by Peter M. Shearer - Another good reference book, but above average in math - I would class it as between moderate and heavy. PLATE TECTONICS - An Insider's History of the Modern Theory of the Earth - by Naomi Oreskes - An EXCELLENT book for the background on plate tectonics. Gives a good foundation in this subject. A BOOK TO AVOID - Unless you have a degree in mathematics: SEISMIC WAVES and SOURCES - by Ari Ben-Menahem and Sarva Jit Singh - VERY HEAVY IN MATH . I hope this helps. Bob Hancock Three Points, AZ _____ From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Rex Klopfenstein Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 17:40 To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Seismology Books Suggestions All I have a copy of "Modern Global Seismology" by Lay & Wallace. I am looking for suggestions of book titles on seismology. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Rex Klopfenstein Bowling Green, OH 43402

I found a price for Anatomy of Seismographs at the publisher (www.elsevier.com) for $140US

 

From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... = On Behalf Of Bob Hancock
Sent: Thursday, April 26, = 2007 11:34 PM
To: psn-l@..............
Subject: RE: Seismology = Books Suggestions

 

Everyone = –

 

I had been searching for a copy of = ANATOMY OF SEISMOGRAMS for several years.  I would search on both Google = and various book searches, and recently found it in a bookstore in the = UK.  It was a new copy with only shelf wear.  The price was about $250, = and my wife has demanded equal time.  Keep looking, as this book appears = to come up from time to time, and is truly one of the best, if not the best for seismogram interpretation. 

 

Another source for this book may be = a university library.  I found it in the University of Arizona (UA) = library – however some schools have expensive library cards.  When = they raised the annual fee for a library card (non-student) from $60.00 to = $100.00, I dropped the card.  However, you should be able to enter their = libraries for free and make copies of the areas you want for pennies per = page.  I have done that from time to time at the UA.

 

Some other books to = consider:

 

WHOLE EARTH GEOPHYSICS – by = Robert J. Lillie - It gives a good intro, and is light on math.  This is = used in introductory Geophysics courses. 

 

THE SEISMIC WAVEFIELD – by = B.L.N. Kennett – This comes in two volumes – Volume 1 – = Introduction and Theoretical Development (heavy on math), and Volume 2 Interpretation = of Seismograms on Regional and Global Scales – I found this to be a = good reference and the math is much reduced from Volume = 1.

 

AN INTRODUCTION TO SEISMOLOGY, EARTHQUAKES, and EARTH STRUCTURE – by Seth Stein and Michael = Wysession – This is an introductory seismology text book used in several schools.  The math in it is moderate, but there are many sections = that are light on math.  Another good reference = book.

 

THE MECHANICS OF EARTHQUAKES AND = FAULTING – by Christopher H. Scholz – Another good reference book = – Overall very light on math.

 

INTRODUCTION TO SEISMOLOGY – = by Peter M. Shearer – Another good reference book, but above average = in math – I would class it as between moderate and = heavy.

 

PLATE TECTONICS – An = Insider’s History of the Modern Theory of the Earth – by Naomi Oreskes = – An EXCELLENT book for the background on plate tectonics.  Gives a good foundation in this subject.

 

A BOOK TO AVOID – Unless you = have a degree in mathematics:

 

SEISMIC WAVES and SOURCES – = by Ari Ben-Menahem and Sarva Jit Singh – VERY HEAVY IN MATH = ..

 

I hope this = helps.

 

Bob = Hancock

Three Points, = AZ

 

From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... = On Behalf Of Rex Klopfenstein
Sent: Thursday, April 26, = 2007 17:40
To: psn-l@..............
Subject: Seismology Books Suggestions

 

All

I have a copy of “Modern Global = Seismology” by Lay & Wallace.  I am looking for suggestions of book titles on seismology.  Any suggestions would be greatly = appreciated.

Thanks

 

Rex Klopfenstein

Bowling = Green, OH  43402

 

Subject: Re[2]: Seismology Books Suggestions From: Angel sismos@.............. Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 22:28:03 +0000

Hello Rex,


Saturday, April 28, 2007, 10:07:52 PM, you wrote:


>

I found a price for Anatomy of Seismographs at the publisher (www.elsevier.com) for $140US


If is available from the publisher it would be nice to know. I don't see how it could be and have the secondary market be so high. 


Angel


Subject: Channels name change on my station. From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 14:37:42 +0000 Hi all This is for those who link agenst my plots. The channels have had a name change. All channels now have the name hvtz and so on. This update has already taken place and the older name has stopped updateing. Regards. --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann http://www.jonfr.com http://www.simnet.is/jonfr500/earthquake/ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Size of a lehman type sensor ? From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 16:23:32 +0000 Hi all Next month I finally can start building a lehman type sensor. But I need to know what size / hight I need to use for the sensor. I have made my own version of the lehman sensor (on the drawing board). How it is going to work is going to be intresting to see. Regards. --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann http://www.jonfr.com http://www.simnet.is/jonfr500/earthquake/ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Size of a lehman type sensor ? From: "tchannel" tchannel@.............. Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 10:38:37 -0600 Jon, Happy to help, with dimensions and pictures from my Lehman, it is very much like Chris's, that is what I use as a target. Ted. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jón Frímann" To: "PSN-Postlist" Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 10:23 AM Subject: Size of a lehman type sensor ? Hi all Next month I finally can start building a lehman type sensor. But I need to know what size / hight I need to use for the sensor. I have made my own version of the lehman sensor (on the drawing board). How it is going to work is going to be intresting to see. Regards. -- Jón Frímann http://www.jonfr.com http://www.simnet.is/jonfr500/earthquake/ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Size of a lehman type sensor ? From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 17:08:13 +0000 Hi Ted Pictures of a lehman type seismometer are welcomed. That helps me to do a final configureation of the seismometer on the drawing board. Regards. --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann http://www.jonfr.com http://www.simnet.is/jonfr500/earthquake/ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Size of a lehman type sensor ? From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 15:38:49 EDT In a message dated 2007/04/29, jonfr@......... writes: > Next month I finally can start building a lehman type sensor. But I need > to know what size / height I need to use for the sensor. Hi Jon, Take a look at http://jclahr.com/science/psn/chapman/lehman/index.html and http://jclahr.com/science/psn/chapman/school/MKII/index.html This is a modern type with NdFeB magnetic damping and sensing. There is quite a lot of helpful information on pendulums at http://jclahr.com/science/psn/epics/links.html I know that you are short of space, but the absolute minimum length for the arm is about 35 cm from the bearing on the upright to the CENTRE of the mass. It is preferable to use about 60 cm, but lengths of 1 m are OK. Larger than this and you tend to get problems with the enclosure and thermal stability. The whole arm and base need to be a bit longer. It is usual to use about a 30, 60, 90 triangle for the suspension, with the 30 deg at the mass end, but you can use 45 deg OK. Make the seismometer as a single unit on a base frame. Use NdFeB magnetic damping. It is clean, effective and dead easy to adjust. The arm needs to be light but rigid - preferably tube, not solid rod. I use 15 mm SS water pipe. It is cheap, rigid and you can get compresssion fittings to fit it. The mass may be ~1 kg. Keep any magnets or ferromagnetic material OFF the arm. Put the sensor and damping magnets on the baseplate. Design the vertical position of the damping plate and the centre of the sensor coil to lie ~on the line from the centre of mass to the lower bearing - offset the mass below the arm if necessary. What sort of suspensions were you considering? Use a V wire from the mass to the top of the upright. Do NOT use either a point in a cup or a knife edge suspension. They are both unsatisfactory. A SS ball bearing in a Tungsten carbide triangle, or a hardened Martensitic SS plate works fine. Crossed Tungsten carbide or Martensitic SS cylinders work fime. You can buy TC needle bearings, TC drills and also 415 grade SS shoulder bolts. See http://pages.prodigy.net/fxc/JC.html I use 3" x 1" U channel Aluminum for the frame with either large joint plates or cross bracing to make it really rigid / strong. The upright must not bend / flex / oscillate as the arm swings. I have made suggestions for magnetic dampers and sensors at http://jclahr.com/science/psn/chapman/lehman/index.html The sensors give a higher output than the large coils and U Alnico magnets pictured elsewhere. You will need an airtight insulating cover to house the seismometer. See http://pages.prodigy.net/fxc/ Al covered Cellotex is usually used. Hope that this helps. Chris Chapman In a me= ssage dated 2007/04/29, jonfr@......... writes:

Next month I finally can start=20= building a lehman type sensor. But I need
to know what size / height I need to use for the sensor.


Hi Jon,

       Take a look at http://jclahr.com/scienc= e/psn/chapman/lehman/index.html
and http://jclahr.com/science/psn/chapman/school/MKII/index.html
       This is a modern type with NdFeB magnet= ic damping and sensing.
       There is quite a lot of helpful informa= tion on pendulums at http://jclahr.com/science/psn/epics/links.html

       I know that you are short of space, but= the absolute minimum length for the arm is about 35 cm from the bearing on=20= the upright to the CENTRE of the mass. It is preferable to use about 60 cm,=20= but lengths of 1 m are OK. Larger than this and you tend to get problems wit= h the enclosure and thermal stability. The whole arm and base need to be a b= it longer.
       It is usual to use about a 30, 60, 90 t= riangle for the suspension, with the 30 deg at the mass end, but you can use= 45 deg OK.
       Make the seismometer as a single uni= t on a base frame.
       Use NdFeB  magnetic damping. It is= clean, effective and dead easy to adjust.
       The arm needs to be light but rigid - p= referably tube, not solid rod. I use 15 mm SS water pipe. It is cheap, rigid= and you can get compresssion fittings to fit it. The mass may be ~1 kg. Kee= p any magnets or ferromagnetic material OFF the arm. Put the sensor and damp= ing magnets on the baseplate.
       Design the vertical position of the dam= ping plate and the centre of the sensor coil to lie ~on the line from the ce= ntre of mass to the lower bearing - offset the mass below the arm if necessa= ry.
       What sort of suspensions were you consi= dering? Use a V wire from the mass to the top of the upright.
             = Do NOT use either a point in a cup or a knife edge suspension. They are both= unsatisfactory.
       A SS ball bearing in a Tungsten car= bide triangle, or a hardened Martensitic SS plate works fine. Crossed Tungst= en carbide or Martensitic SS cylinders work fime. You can buy TC needle bear= ings, TC drills and also 415 grade SS shoulder bolts.
See http://pages.prodigy.net/fxc/JC.html
       I use 3" x 1" U channel Aluminum for th= e frame with either large joint plates or cross bracing to make it really ri= gid / strong. The upright must not bend / flex / oscillate as the arm swings= ..
       I have made suggestions for magnetic da= mpers and sensors at http://jclahr.com/science/psn/chapman/lehman/index.html= The sensors give a higher output than the large coils and U Alnico magnets=20= pictured elsewhere.
       You will need an airtight insulating co= ver to house the seismometer. See http://pages.prodigy.net/fxc/
        Al covered Cellotex is usually us= ed.

       Hope that this helps.
      
       Chris Chapman

 Subject: geophone too close ? From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 22:41:56 +0000 hi all In a attemt to get rid of noise from varius sources, at least reduse it a bit. I am testing to have my geophone in my computer room. But I did notice on my Borgarnes test setup that the noise level was not much diffrent in the corner then I was having on my main system (Hvammstangi) at it's location in my apartment. But this means that the geophone is less then three meters away from me. I do see footsteps and such noise, but I do not get the door noise and the window noise that I get when I open and close the window. I've like to get opinion on this if possible. Regards. --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann http://www.jonfr.com http://www.simnet.is/jonfr500/earthquake/ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: Re[2]: Seismology Books Suggestions From: "Rex Klopfenstein" rklopfen@......... Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2007 23:11:06 -0400 I think if you look at Amazon the price comes up over $1000!! _____ From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Angel Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 6:28 PM To: Rex Klopfenstein Subject: Re[2]: Seismology Books Suggestions Hello Rex, Saturday, April 28, 2007, 10:07:52 PM, you wrote: > I found a price for Anatomy of Seismographs at the publisher ( www.elsevier.com) for $140US If is available from the publisher it would be nice to know. I don't see how it could be and have the secondary market be so high. Angel

I think if you look at Amazon the = price comes up over $1000!!

 

From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... = On Behalf Of Angel
Sent: Saturday, April 28, = 2007 6:28 PM
To: Rex Klopfenstein
Subject: Re[2]: = Seismology Books Suggestions

 

Hello = Rex,

 

Saturday, April 28, 2007, = 10:07:52 PM, you wrote:

 

> 

I found a price for Anatomy of Seismographs = at the publisher (www.elsevier.com) = for $140US

 

If is available from the = publisher it would be nice to know. I don't see how it could be and have the = secondary market be so high. 

 

Angel

 

Subject: Re: geophone too close ? From: ian ian@........... Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 07:53:15 +0100 Hi, could it be like the school experiment where you scatter salt on a metal sheet and then vibrate the sheet with a few KHz of sound. The salt grains move to areas of the metal sheet where the vibrations are least. Perhaps your floor is like that, with parts of it vibrating less than others? But does that meain that seismic vibration will be less there too? Ian Jón Frímann wrote: >hi all > >In a attemt to get rid of noise from varius sources, at least reduse it >a bit. I am testing to have my geophone in my computer room. But I did >notice on my Borgarnes test setup that the noise level was not much >diffrent in the corner then I was having on my main system (Hvammstangi) >at it's location in my apartment. But this means that the geophone is >less then three meters away from me. I do see footsteps and such noise, >but I do not get the door noise and the window noise that I get when I >open and close the window. > >I've like to get opinion on this if possible. > >Regards. > > Ian www.festivalpreviews.com -- Hi,

could it be like the school experiment where you scatter salt on a metal sheet and then vibrate the sheet with a few KHz of sound.  The salt grains move to areas of the metal sheet where the vibrations are least.  Perhaps your floor is like that, with parts of it vibrating less than others?  But does that meain that seismic vibration will be less there too?

Ian

Jón Frímann wrote: 
hi all

In a attemt to get rid of noise from varius sources, at least reduse it
a bit. I am testing to have my geophone in my computer room. But I did
notice on my Borgarnes test setup that the noise level was not much
diffrent in the corner then I was having on my main system (Hvammstangi)
at it's location in my apartment. But this means that the geophone is
less then three meters away from me. I do see footsteps and such noise,
but I do not get the door noise and the window noise that I get when I
open and close the window.

I've like to get opinion on this if possible.

Regards.

Ian
www.festivalpreviews.com
--

Subject: Re: geophone too close ? From: ian ian@........... Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 07:53:15 +0100 Hi, could it be like the school experiment where you scatter salt on a metal sheet and then vibrate the sheet with a few KHz of sound. The salt grains move to areas of the metal sheet where the vibrations are least. Perhaps your floor is like that, with parts of it vibrating less than others? But does that meain that seismic vibration will be less there too? Ian Jón Frímann wrote: >hi all > >In a attemt to get rid of noise from varius sources, at least reduse it >a bit. I am testing to have my geophone in my computer room. But I did >notice on my Borgarnes test setup that the noise level was not much >diffrent in the corner then I was having on my main system (Hvammstangi) >at it's location in my apartment. But this means that the geophone is >less then three meters away from me. I do see footsteps and such noise, >but I do not get the door noise and the window noise that I get when I >open and close the window. > >I've like to get opinion on this if possible. > >Regards. > > Ian www.festivalpreviews.com -- Hi,

could it be like the school experiment where you scatter salt on a metal sheet and then vibrate the sheet with a few KHz of sound.  The salt grains move to areas of the metal sheet where the vibrations are least.  Perhaps your floor is like that, with parts of it vibrating less than others?  But does that meain that seismic vibration will be less there too?

Ian

Jón Frímann wrote: 
hi all

In a attemt to get rid of noise from varius sources, at least reduse it
a bit. I am testing to have my geophone in my computer room. But I did
notice on my Borgarnes test setup that the noise level was not much
diffrent in the corner then I was having on my main system (Hvammstangi)
at it's location in my apartment. But this means that the geophone is
less then three meters away from me. I do see footsteps and such noise,
but I do not get the door noise and the window noise that I get when I
open and close the window.

I've like to get opinion on this if possible.

Regards.

Ian
www.festivalpreviews.com
--

Subject: Re: geophone too close ? From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 01:41:43 -0700 I have seen microcircuitry rooms that are vibration isolated you need to cut a slot around the slab where the geophone will be located then fill the slot with a material that will let the two slabs move independently. They build these rooms in a russian doll fashion because the traces are so small on the microchips that the slightest vobration will ruin the whole lot they are making. ----- Original Message ----- From: "ian" To: Cc: "PSN-Postlist" Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 23:53 Subject: Re: geophone too close ? > Hi, > > could it be like the school experiment where you scatter salt on a metal > sheet and then vibrate the sheet with a few KHz of sound. The salt > grains move to areas of the metal sheet where the vibrations are least. > Perhaps your floor is like that, with parts of it vibrating less than > others? But does that meain that seismic vibration will be less there too? > > Ian > > Jón Frímann wrote: > >>hi all >> >>In a attemt to get rid of noise from varius sources, at least reduse it >>a bit. I am testing to have my geophone in my computer room. But I did >>notice on my Borgarnes test setup that the noise level was not much >>diffrent in the corner then I was having on my main system (Hvammstangi) >>at it's location in my apartment. But this means that the geophone is >>less then three meters away from me. I do see footsteps and such noise, >>but I do not get the door noise and the window noise that I get when I >>open and close the window. >> >>I've like to get opinion on this if possible. >> >>Regards. >> >> > > Ian > www.festivalpreviews.com > -- > > > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: geophone too close ? From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 11:19:05 +0000 Hi After a few hours of testing. I found out that the geophone was too close. So I put it at more distance this time from the window and the door. In a part of my apartment where there is little traffic. It is also the place where I plan to setup the Lehman type sensor I plan to build next month. Regards. --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann http://www.jonfr.com http://www.simnet.is/jonfr500/earthquake/ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: geophone too close ? From: "Bob Hancock" carpediem1@......... Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 09:00:31 -0700 Jon - One important question you need to answer is what the source of your = noise is. Setting the instrument inside a residence means that your = instrument will be affected by residence itself. As pointed out in a previous = email, one way would be to separate the base that the geophone resides on from = the base of the residence. This may not prove to be practical, and winds or people walking about a residence will affect an instrument. Another consideration is shielding the instrument itself. Ambient wind currents and temperature changes can affect an instrument and bring = about significant variations. If you could cover the instrument with a bucket lined in fiberglass or something similar to shield it from these = changes, it could reduce your ambient noise. =20 Avoid using foams or Styrofoam as they have minute air pockets in them = and as pressure changes, they will expand or contract and these changes will = be transmitted to the instrument. Bob Hancock Three Points, AZ -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... = On Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 04:19 To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: geophone too close ? Hi After a few hours of testing. I found out that the geophone was too close. So I put it at more distance this time from the window and the door. In a part of my apartment where there is little traffic. It is also the place where I plan to setup the Lehman type sensor I plan to build next month. Regards. --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann http://www.jonfr.com http://www.simnet.is/jonfr500/earthquake/ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Size of a lehman type sensor ? From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 16:15:11 +0000 Hi all, Chris Is it possible to get the dimater in a easy form ? But I am going to get a help from a local car shop here to help me build the seismoter. But they want to get the size in exact numbers so they don't have to spend a lot of time thinking on the details. Thanks and regards. --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann http://www.jonfr.com http://www.simnet.is/jonfr500/earthquake/ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: geophone too close ? From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 17:29:58 +0000 Hi The sources of noise near my sensors are my own traffic in the apartment, mostly. But also car traffic, wind, ocean (sometimes) and so on. I hope that in the not so distant future that I will move to a house that is more fitted for earthquake recording. Also at the moment, the hvt sensor is the only one how is going to be mostly affected by this type noise. Due to its location. Regards. --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann http://www.jonfr.com http://www.simnet.is/jonfr500/earthquake/ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: geophone too close ? From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 14:43:11 EDT In a message dated 2007/04/30, carpediem1@......... writes: > Avoid using foams or Styrofoam as they have minute air pockets in them and > as pressure changes, they will expand or contract and these changes will be > transmitted to the instrument. Hi Bob, Have any problems of this sort been actually documented? We have been using Cellotex cases for years apparently without problem. This is a sealed cell styrofoam with two layers of glass scrim glued to the surfaces. I would not rest my seismometer on such, but I would not expect any problems with a Cellotex case which is supported on the floor. The total mass is low. How would this be transmitted to the instrument? Regards, Chris Chapman In a me= ssage dated 2007/04/30, carpediem1@......... writes:

Avoid using foams or Styrofoam=20= as they have minute air pockets in them and
as pressure changes, they will expand or contract and these changes will be<= BR> transmitted to the instrument.


Hi Bob,

       Have any problems of this sort been=20= actually documented? We have been using Cellotex cases for years apparen= tly without problem. This is a sealed cell styrofoam with two layers of glas= s scrim glued to the surfaces. I would not rest my seismometer on such, but=20= I would not expect any problems with a Cellotex case which is supported o= n the floor. The total mass is low.
       How would this be transmitted to the in= strument?

       Regards,

       Chris Chapman Subject: RE: geophone too close ? From: "Bob Hancock" carpediem1@......... Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:29:16 -0700 Hi Chris - OOPS - I dropped part of a sentence....My fault...According to the installation engineers at the Albuquerque Seismological Laboratory, they have experienced problems when the Styrofoam was in DIRECT contact with the instrument. Under these conditions, changes in air pressure have caused increases in ambient noise on their instruments. I am unaware of any problems when Styrofoam is used as a thermal shield and not in direct contact with the instrument. Bob Hancock _____ From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of ChrisAtUpw@....... Sent: Monday, April 30, 2007 11:43 To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: geophone too close ? In a message dated 2007/04/30, carpediem1@......... writes: Avoid using foams or Styrofoam as they have minute air pockets in them and as pressure changes, they will expand or contract and these changes will be transmitted to the instrument. Hi Bob, Have any problems of this sort been actually documented? We have been using Cellotex cases for years apparently without problem. This is a sealed cell styrofoam with two layers of glass scrim glued to the surfaces. I would not rest my seismometer on such, but I would not expect any problems with a Cellotex case which is supported on the floor. The total mass is low. How would this be transmitted to the instrument? Regards, Chris Chapman

Hi Chris = –

 

OOPS – I dropped part of a = sentence……….My fault………According to the installation engineers at the Albuquerque Seismological Laboratory, they have experienced =  problems when the Styrofoam was in DIRECT contact with the instrument. Under these conditions, changes in air pressure have caused increases in ambient = noise on their instruments.  I am unaware of any problems when Styrofoam is used = as a thermal shield and not in direct contact with the instrument.  =   

 

Bob = Hancock

 

 

 

From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... = On Behalf Of = ChrisAtUpw@.......
Sent: Monday, April 30, = 2007 11:43
To: psn-l@..............
Subject: Re: geophone too = close ?

 

In a message dated 2007/04/30, carpediem1@......... = writes:


Avoid using foams or Styrofoam as they have minute = air pockets in them and
as pressure changes, they will expand or contract and these changes will = be
transmitted to the instrument.



Hi Bob,

       Have any problems of this sort = been actually documented? We have been using Cellotex cases for years = apparently without problem. This is a sealed cell styrofoam with two layers of = glass scrim glued to the surfaces. I would not rest my seismometer on such, but I = would not expect any problems with a Cellotex case which is supported on the = floor. The total mass is low.
       How would this be transmitted to = the instrument?

       Regards,

       Chris Chapman =

Subject: Re: Size of a lehman type sensor? From: Bobhelenmcclure@....... Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 18:59:58 EDT In a message dated 2007/04/29, jonfr@......... writes: > Next month I finally can start building a lehman type sensor. But I need > to know what size / height I need to use for the sensor. Hi Jon, You do not have to build a big clunker Lehman to have a useful sensor. I use compact horizontal sensors set to 6 to 13 seconds period. I extend the long period response using my utility program WQFilter.exe. If you use either a long period Lehman or a period-extended medium period Lehman, your site will have a lot to do with your results. The sensor must rest on firm ground, and you must not walk anywhere near it. (Long period horizontal sensors are very sensitive to tilt.) Ground tilt induced by wind gusts is a big problem for me. My sensors are on the basement floor of my home. They were placed where walking around on the floor above produces the least response. Information about my sensors and software can be found at _http://www.jclahr.com/science/psn/mcclure/index.html_ (http://www.jclahr.com/science/psn/mcclure/index.html) I use WQFilter exclusively for WinQuake event file filtering. It is contained in seismic_dataq.zip, which can be downloaded from _http://www.jclahr.com/science/psn/mcclure/wdq_utilities/index.html_ (http://www.jclahr.com/science/psn/mcclure/wdq_utilities/index.html) WQFilter has a selection of lowpass and highpass filters, and my special period extending filter. This filter can make the period either shorter or longer than the physical period of the pendulum. It can also correct for under-or-overdamping. For examples of the benefits of using WQFilter, see _http://www.jclahr.com/science/psn/mcclure/filter_examples/index.html_ (http://www.jclahr.com/science/psn/mcclure/filter_examples/index.html) By the way, if anyone is presently using WQFilter.exe older than version 2.0.15, please download the update. It is now rigorously accurate, as proven in _http://www.jclahr.com/science/psn/mcclure/filter/index.html_ (http://www.jclahr.com/science/psn/mcclure/filter/index.html) Bob McClure PSN Station REM ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
In a message dated 2007/04/29, jonfr@......... writes:
 
> Next month I finally can start building a lehman type sensor. But=20= I=20 need
> to know what size / height I need to use for the sensor.
 
Hi Jon,
 
  You do not have to build a big clunker Lehman to have a useful=20 sensor. I use compact horizontal sensors set to 6 to 13 seconds period. I ex= tend=20 the long period response using my utility program WQFilter.exe. If you use=20 either a long period Lehman or a period-extended medium period Lehman, your=20= site=20 will have a lot to do with your results. The sensor must rest on firm=20 ground, and you must not walk anywhere near it. (Long period horizontal sens= ors=20 are very sensitive to tilt.) Ground tilt induced by wind gusts is a big prob= lem=20 for me. My sensors are on the basement floor of my home. They were placed wh= ere=20 walking around on the floor above produces the least response.
 
  Information about my sensors and software can be found at
 
  http://www.jcl= ahr.com/science/psn/mcclure/index.html
 
  I use WQFilter exclusively for WinQuake event file filtering. It= is=20 contained in seismic_dataq.zip, which can be downloaded from
 
  = http://www.jclahr.com/science/psn/mcclure/wdq_utilities/index.html
 
  WQFilter has a selection of lowpass and highpass filters, and my= =20 special period extending filter. This filter can make the period either shor= ter=20 or longer than the physical period of the pendulum. It can also correct for=20 under-or-overdamping. For examples of the benefits of using WQFilter, see
 
   http://www.jclahr.com/science/psn/mcclure/filter_examples/index.html
 
  By the way, if anyone is presently using WQFilter.exe older than= =20 version 2.0.15, please download the update. It is now rigorously accurate, a= s=20 proven in
 
  http://= www.jclahr.com/science/psn/mcclure/filter/index.html =20
 
 
Bob McClure
PSN Station=20 REM



See what's free at AOL.com.
Subject: Re: Mag 4.9 Earthquake in UK From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 01:45:08 +0000 Hi all Have there been any aftershocks of the mag 4.9 earthquake few days ago. Regards. --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann http://www.jonfr.com http://www.simnet.is/jonfr500/earthquake/ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Mag 4.9 Earthquake in UK From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 22:58:09 EDT In a message dated 2007/05/02, jonfr@......... writes: > Have there been any aftershocks of the mag 4.9 earthquake few days ago Hi Jon, It was M 4.2. There don't seem to have been any significant aftershocks. See http://www.earthquakes.bgs.ac.uk/helicorder/heli.html select Swindon and the period range. Regards, Chris Chapman In a me= ssage dated 2007/05/02, jonfr@......... writes:

Have there been any aftershocks= of the mag 4.9 earthquake few days ago


Hi Jon,

       It was M 4.2. There don't seem to have=20= been any significant aftershocks.

       See http://www.earthquakes.bgs.ac.uk/he= licorder/heli.html select Swindon and the period range.

       Regards,

       Chris Chapman Subject: Hey Guys whats shakin?? Nothing here. From: "Paul Cianciolo" Paulc@........ Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 14:38:10 -0400 Hey Folks, I think I have a problem with my sensor. Here is where I am Latitude Longitude At this site http://quake.bc.edu:8000/cgi-bin/NESN/24hr_heli?jday=124&kstn=NCB&chan=BHE&b and=Long%20Period one can see the ascension island quake clearly on most of the machines. I have looked at a number of these sensors that surround my location, and I see the AI event, but it is not on seen by my machine. First thanks to Ted Channel who got me squared away on a number of difficulties already. I have a coupel of questions. 1) What is the width of your horizontal sensors. I mean the distance between the leveling legs? Mine is 21" and the boom length is 40" 2) This sensor seems very susecptible to tilt and but has yet to record a quake... SO is it possible for the "stance" of the machine to be too wide, making it world well as a tilt machine and poorly as a lateral mothin machine. I can send this info to anyone who might want to look. 1) The ascension Island SAC file 2) an random 1 hour SAC file so you guys can see the noise floor. 3) A SAC file of the sensor with the coil locked down so you can once again see the noise flor 4) A SAC file of me standing 3 feet away from the sensor, perpendicular to the boom, for 5 secs so you can see the tilt response. Any takers?? PauLC W1VLF Quakeless in Connecticut
Hey=20 Folks,
 
I=20 think I have a problem with my sensor.
 
Here=20 is where I am
 
Latitude
Longitude
 
 
At=20 this site http://quake.bc.edu:800= 0/cgi-bin/NESN/24hr_heli?jday=3D124&kstn=3DNCB&chan=3DBHE&ban= d=3DLong%20Period
one=20 can see the ascension island quake clearly on most of the=20 machines.
 
I have=20 looked at a number of these sensors that surround my location, = and I=20 see the AI event,  but it is not on seen by my = machine.
First=20 thanks to Ted Channel who got me squared away on a number of = difficulties=20 already.
 
I have=20 a coupel of questions.
 
1)=20 What is the width of your horizontal sensors.  I mean the distance = between=20 the leveling legs?
 
Mine=20 is 21"  and the boom length is 40"
 
2)=20 This sensor seems very susecptible to tilt and but has yet to record a=20 quake...
SO is=20 it possible for the "stance" of the machine to be too wide, making it = world well=20 as a tilt machine and poorly as a lateral mothin = machine.
 
I can=20 send this info to anyone who might want to look.
 
1) The=20 ascension Island SAC file
 
2) an=20 random 1 hour SAC file so you guys can see the noise = floor.
 
3) A=20 SAC file of the sensor with the coil locked down so you can once again = see the=20 noise flor
4) A=20 SAC file of  me standing 3 feet away from the sensor, perpendicular = to the=20 boom, for 5 secs  so you can see the tilt = response.
 
Any=20 takers??
 
PauLC
W1VLF
Quakeless in Connecticut
 
 
 
 
 
Subject: Re: Hey Guys whats shakin?? Nothing here. From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 15:28:03 EDT In a message dated 2007/05/04, Paulc@........ writes: > I have a couple of questions. > 1) What is the width of your horizontal sensors. I mean the distance > between the leveling legs? Hi Paul, About half the length of the arm. If you make it less, you may find it hard to level. > Mine is 21" and the boom length is 40" Sounds about right. > 2) This sensor seems very susecptible to tilt and but has yet to record a > quake... > SO is it possible for the "stance" of the machine to be too wide, making it > world well as a tilt machine and poorly as a lateral mothin machine. No. All Lehmans are sensitive to tilt. What is it resting on? Check your period. What is it? Check for free swing movement. OK? Check the damping is ~ critical and not seriously overdamped. What sort of damping are you using? Check the orientation with respect to the source? Lehmans may be better on transverse Love waves. They DON'T respond equally in all directions! > I can send this info to anyone who might want to look. > 2) an random 1 hour SAC file so you guys can see the noise floor. Check that you are picking up the six second microseisms OK. If not, you may need more amplification, or have a wiring problem? What sensor are you using? > 3) A SAC file of the sensor with the coil locked down so you can once > again see the noise floor > 4) A SAC file of me standing 3 feet away from the sensor, perpendicular to > the boom, for 5 secs so you can see the tilt response. If you are getting an OK tilt response when you move in both directions, it sounds more like an orientation or sensitivity problem. Do you have a photo of the seismometer? Regards, Chris Chapman In a me= ssage dated 2007/05/04, Paulc@........ writes:

I have a couple of questions.<= /FONT>=
1) What is the width of your horizontal sensors.  I mean the distance=20= between the leveling legs?


Hi Paul,

       About half the length of the arm. If yo= u make it less, you may find it hard to level.

Mine is 21"  and the boom= length is 40"


       Sounds about right.

2) This sensor seems very sus= ecptible to tilt and but has yet to record a quake...
SO is it possible for the "stance" of the machine to be too wide, making it= world well as a tilt machine and poorly as a lateral mothin machine.=

       No. All Lehmans are sensitive to tilt.= What is it resting on?
       Check your period. What is it?
       Check for free swing movement. OK?
       Check the damping is ~ critical and not= seriously overdamped. What sort of damping are you using?
       Check the orientation with respect to t= he source? Lehmans may be better on transverse Love waves. They DON'T res= pond equally in all directions!

I can send this info to anyon= e who might want to look.
2) an random 1 hour SAC file so you guys can see the noise floor.

       Check that you are picking up the six=20= second microseisms OK. If not, you may need more amplification, or have a wi= ring problem? What sensor are you using?

3) A SAC file of the sensor w= ith the coil locked down so you can once again see the noise floor
4) A SAC file of  me standing 3 feet away from the sensor, perpendicul= ar to the boom, for 5 secs  so you can see the tilt response.

       If you are getting an OK tilt response=20= when you move in both directions, it sounds more like an orientation or sens= itivity problem.

       Do you have a photo of the seismometer?=

       Regards,

       Chris Chapman Subject: New station From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 22:59:19 +0000 Hi all I have started a new station. It is located in a town called Borgarnes and is a lot closer to all the major seismic zones in Iceland. Regards. --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann http://www.jonfr.com http://www.simnet.is/jonfr500/earthquake/ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Hey Guys whats shakin?? Nothing here. From: Bobhelenmcclure@....... Date: Fri, 4 May 2007 23:01:29 EDT Hi Paul, I operate PSN station REM on Long Island, New York. The Ascension Island event you refer to came in here weakly, especially on the N-S channel. If you are sensing N-S, I am not surprised if you didn't see much of anything. My file is posted at _http://www.seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/event.exe_ (http://www.seismicnet.com/cgi-dos/event.exe) as 070504.121500.rem.psn. I am near the Palisades, NY station PAL. You can see their heliplots at _http://www.ldeo.columbia.edu/cgi-bin/LCSN/WebSeis/24hr_heli.pl?id_ (http://www.ldeo.columbia.edu/cgi-bin/LCSN/WebSeis/24hr_heli.pl?id) = Bob ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
Hi Paul,
 
  I operate PSN station REM on Long Island, New York. The Ascensio= n=20 Island event you refer to came in here weakly, especially on the N-S channel= .. If=20 you are sensing N-S, I am not surprised if you didn't see much of=20 anything.
 
  My file is posted at http://www.seismicnet.c= om/cgi-dos/event.exe=20 as 070504.121500.rem.psn.
 
  I am near the Palisades, NY station PAL. You can see their=20 heliplots at
 
  h= ttp://www.ldeo.columbia.edu/cgi-bin/LCSN/WebSeis/24hr_heli.pl?id=3D
 
Bob



See what's= free at AOL.co= m.
Subject: Re: Hey Guys whats shakin?? Nothing here. From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Sat, 5 May 2007 14:03:42 EDT In a message dated 2007/05/05, Bobhelenmcclure@....... writes: > Hi Paul, > I operate PSN station REM on Long Island, New York. The Ascension Island > event you refer to came in here weakly, especially on the N-S channel. If you > are sensing N-S, I am not surprised if you didn't see much of anything. > > I am near the Palisades, NY station PAL. You can see their heliplots at > http://www.ldeo.columbia.edu/cgi-bin/LCSN/WebSeis/24hr_heli.pl?id= > > Bob Hi Bob, I appreciate what you say about your record, but PAL shows the LP N trace quite clearly, as does NESN. The signal should have been way above the noise at that time. Regards, Chris In a me= ssage dated 2007/05/05, Bobhelenmcclure@....... writes:

Hi Paul,
  I operate PSN station REM on Long Island, New York. The Ascension Isl= and event you refer to came in here weakly, especially on the N-S channel. I= f you are sensing N-S, I am not surprised if you didn't see much of anything= ..

   I am near the Palisades, NY station PAL. You can see their heli= plots at
   http://www.ldeo.columbia.edu/cgi-bin/LCSN/WebSeis/24hr_heli.p= l?id=3D

Bob


Hi Bob,

       I appreciate what you say about your re= cord, but PAL shows the LP N trace quite clearly, as does NESN. The signal s= hould have been way above the noise at that time.

       Regards,

       Chris Subject: Quiet times From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 17:21:46 +0000 Hi all It is rather quiet in earthquakes this past days. But it appears to be a global quiet time. There is also quiet in earthquakes in Iceland at the moment. Regards. --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann http://www.jonfr.com http://www.simnet.is/jonfr500/earthquake/ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Hammer of Eden.. the book From: "Paul Cianciolo" Paulc@........ Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 20:22:16 -0400 Hello Folks, A book I read sometime ago, By Ken Follet. Hammer of Eden. Its an interesting book, which has the topic of seismolgy in it. Not knowing all that much about seismology, I cannot say wether the author may or may not have taken any liberties. For what its worth I enjoyed it... Lets face it... its not everyday this topic is covered in a book. An excerpt from the authors web. http://www.ken-follett.com/bibliography/hammereden.html The Hammer of Eden The one thing Californians fear most is a full-scale earthquake. The thing Priest fears most is the destruction of his commune in the Sierra Nevada foothills - the one place he can hide from his mobster past. He has to make the Governor of California listen to him. And now he has a way. He knows how to create an earthquake. And if his demands aren't met, the next quake is just 48 hours away... The Hammer of Eden is a story where the bad guys figure out how to cause an earthquake. They use a machine called a seismic vibrator which is an enormous hammer mounted on the back of a truck. It is usually used to find oil. The hammer sends shockwaves through the earth's crust and the reflections of the vibrations are then mapped to show the sub-surface of the earth. PauLC __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Earthquakes with low frequancy From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Sat, 12 May 2007 15:16:30 +0000 Hi all My new station at Borgarnes is close enugh to record earthquakes from the Myrdalsjokull Volcano (http://www.volcano.si.edu/world/volcano.cfm?vnum=3D1702-03=3D). I have already recored few earthquakes from that volcano. But most of them are small, from mag 1.5 to 2.2 on the ricther scale. But most of those earthquakes have strange carticstics that I have known about for years, but never been able to understand or see before. Most of thease earthquakes have frequancy that goes down to 1Hz and lower. Based on the poor recordings I currently got, there appears to be small tremor noise (magma moving?) following the earthquakes. But because how the poor current recordings are, that is unconfirmed at the moment. Any suggestions on what I am looking at are welcomed. Since I am unsure what is going on in the Myrdalsjokull (Katla) Volcano. But it is known that the Myrdalsjokull Volcano has been warming up for a long time now and is ready to blow at any time. Regards. --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann http://www.jonfr.com http://www.simnet.is/jonfr500/earthquake/ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Weather Cam From: 1goss@........... Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 23:39:45 +0000 I Thought some of you might be interested In our latest PTZ Camera and live weather station. It is on a weather sight at Pickwick Lake TN. The camera overlooks the lake and the Pickwick Dam I know its not seismology related but their is a seismograph at this location as well,PWLA EHZ NM : Pickwick Lake, AL Tell me what you think of the site. www.pickwickweather.com Bryan S Goss Corinth MS __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Weather Cam From: "Arie Verveer" greensky@.............. Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 10:08:35 +0800 Hi, A very slick site. I still find it odd looking at web cam image from the other side of the planet. Cheers Arie On Fri, 18 May 2007 07:39:45 +0800, <1goss@...........> wrote: > I Thought some of you might be interested In our latest PTZ Camera and > live weather station. It is on a weather sight at Pickwick Lake TN. The > camera overlooks the lake and the Pickwick Dam I know its not seismology > related but their is a seismograph > at this location as well,PWLA EHZ NM : Pickwick Lake, AL > > Tell me what you think of the site. > www.pickwickweather.com > > Bryan S Goss > Corinth MS > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: gain for lehman type sensor ? From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 12:01:03 +0000 Hi all What is the best gain for Lehman type sensor ? I am going to use coils and magnet from Larry. The gain on the board is set on 1000. Regards. --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann http://www.jonfr.com http://www.simnet.is/jonfr500/earthquake/ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: gain for lehman type sensor ? From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 08:55:36 EDT In a message dated 2007/05/20, jonfr@......... writes: > Hi all > What is the best gain for Lehman type sensor? I am going to use coils > and magnet from Larry. The gain on the board is set on 1000. > J=F3n Fr=EDmann Hi Jon, The 'best' gain is determined by the instrument period, the strength=20 of the magnet and the coil shape, area and turns. In practice you set the=20 Lehman to give a period of maybe 25 seconds and select the gain to give coun= ts of=20 say 200. The signal will be mostly background microseisms, which you have to= =20 filter out, leaving the quake signals. Can you not get any NdFeB square magnets? I use four off 1" square x=20 1/8" thick ones on two 6mm mild steel backing plates and wind my own=20 rectangular coils to suit, made from old glass circuit board. See 'Sensor Co= il / Magnet=20 System' at the bottom of=20 http://jclahr.com/science/psn/chapman/lehman/index.html This allows about +/-12 mm tilt drift to still give the same output=20 sensitivity. You should be able to buy 0.125 mm dia insulated copper wire re= f.=20 YN92A from your Maplins agent in Iceland. It will give a much higher output= =20 than the Alnico U magnets. Regards, Chris Chapman =20 In a me= ssage dated 2007/05/20, jonfr@......... writes:

Hi all
What is the best gain for Lehman type sensor? I am going to use coils
and magnet from Larry. The gain on the board is set on 1000.
J=F3n Fr=EDmann


Hi Jon,

       The 'best' gain is determined by the in= strument period, the strength of the magnet and the coil shape, area and tur= ns. In practice you set the Lehman to give a period of maybe 25 seconds and=20= select the gain to give counts of say 200. The signal will be mostly backgro= und microseisms, which you have to filter out, leaving the quake signals.        Can you not get any NdFeB square magnet= s? I use four off 1" square x 1/8" thick ones on two 6mm mild steel backing=20= plates and wind my own rectangular coils to suit, made from old glass circui= t board. See 'Sensor Coil / Magnet System' at the bottom of http://jclahr.co= m/science/psn/chapman/lehman/index.html
       This allows about +/-12 mm tilt drift t= o still give the same output sensitivity. You should be able to buy 0.125 mm= dia insulated copper wire ref. YN92A from your  Maplins agent in Icela= nd. It will give a much higher output than the Alnico U magnets.

       Regards,

       Chris Chapman Subject: Torsion spring From: "tchannel" tchannel@.............. Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 09:38:21 -0600 Hi All, First thing, is it just me or is it quiet, "too quiet"? Today = is the 11th day on my calendar since I recorded an earthquake. My = average, here, is about 2 per week. I am overdue, so I will be watching = closely today and tomorrow. On a different issue: I have been restoring old mantle clock. Recently = a 400 day Anniversary clock. It uses a "torsion spring".........I know = very little about clocks, but this is an interesting concept. A long = thin, flat spring wire, is twisted slightly, and uses little energy. = The result is a very long running clock train. Has anyone tried to use this concept for a seismometer? Just thinking, = the period might be long. On the clock I think the spring rotates about = once every 4 secs in each direction. Could a long spring, something = like a band-saw blade, but without teeth, be un wrapped and configured = to move a horizontal arm, left and right, with a long period of approx. = 20 seconds. Just wondering if this has been tried. "Watch your helicorders" Ted
Hi All, First thing, is it just me or = is it quiet,=20 "too quiet"?  Today is the 11th day on my calendar since I recorded = an=20 earthquake.  My average, here, is about 2 per week.  I am = overdue, so=20 I will be watching closely today and tomorrow.
 
On a different issue:  I have been = restoring=20 old mantle clock.  Recently a 400 day Anniversary clock.  It = uses a=20 "torsion spring".........I know very little about clocks, but this is an = interesting concept.  A long thin, flat spring wire, is twisted = slightly,=20 and uses little energy.  The result is a very long running clock=20 train.
Has anyone tried to use this concept = for a=20 seismometer?   Just thinking, the period might be long.  = On the=20 clock I think the spring rotates about once every 4 secs in each=20 direction.   Could a long spring, something like a band-saw = blade, but=20 without teeth, be un wrapped and configured to move a horizontal = arm, left=20 and right, with a long period of approx. 20 seconds.
Just wondering if this has been = tried.
 
 
"Watch your helicorders"
Ted
Subject: Nice quake From: Pete Rowe ptrowe@......... Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 16:34:24 -0700 (PDT) We just had a nice 3.4 pretty much right under me in the east hills of San Jose. I heard it coming and then the S wave hit with a boom. Cool. I always like a nice earthquake. Pete ____________________________________________________________________________________Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Kinemetrics VS-3 Triaxial Seismic Trigger on e-bay From: "Louis Taber" ltaber@......... Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 17:04:12 -0700 Hi, taat-ricardo (Not me. I am not interested in buying it.) has a .01G Kinemetrics VS-3 three axis trigger listed on e-bay. Item # 160117388801. It could be used for an earthquake alarm so you don't miss any local earthquakes! I am not the seller and I am not interested in buying it. But, it does look interesting. - Louis Hi,

taat-ricardo (Not me. I am not interested in buying it.) has a .01G Kinemetrics VS-3 three axis trigger listed on e-bay.  Item # 160117388801.  It could be used for an earthquake alarm so you don't miss any local earthquakes!   I am not the seller and I am not interested in buying it.  But, it does look interesting.

  - Louis
 Subject: Re: Torsion spring From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 01:36:03 +0000 Hi all, Ted I don't know about springs, but I do know about earthquakes. I agree with you on that it is too quiet at the moment. It has also been awfully quiet in earthquakes around Iceland for the past three weeks now. If it wheren't for the tempuary station I have connection to and the remote station that I have in, I would not have recored any earthquakes for at least two weeks. On a global scale, it has been pretty quiet, besides the one mag 6.3 earthquake in Laos the other day. I don't think that the slowness is going to last more then 15 days, 25 days tops. Something must be on time for a mag 7 to 8 earthquake. Regards. --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann http://www.jonfr.com http://www.simnet.is/jonfr500/earthquake/ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: Nice quake From: "Kareem of Heyjoojoo" system98765@............. Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 21:12:53 -0700 Hey Pete, Felt that up here in El Sobrante but wasn't sure at the time. Slight, almost imperceptible quivvering motion. I looked up to my model airplanes to see if they were moving. They weren't but I figured it was a very small event somewhere in the bay area. Yeah, that was your classic san jose quake - it's been a while. BTW, I thought the "boom" would be the P wave arriving (especially if you heard it coming) at your location rather than the S waves. No? Kareem -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Pete Rowe Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 4:34 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Nice quake We just had a nice 3.4 pretty much right under me in the east hills of San Jose. I heard it coming and then the S wave hit with a boom. Cool. I always like a nice earthquake. Pete ____________________________________________________________________________ ________Shape Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Torsion springs... From: "Daryl P. Dacko" mycrump@........ Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 01:20:56 -0400 I know that there was a type of unit that used a torsion suspension, I saw it in an old Scientific American magazine. A small post held a wire vertically between two clamps, the top clamp being adjustable to set the zero. It used a small copper 'flag' that mounted to the wire, and had a mirror mounted on the flag. There was a magnet mounted to damp the flag, which was the pendulum. The readout was via a light beam onto a photopaper covered drum. There were two little rods with slots that held oil drops to help damp the wire. It's in that CD that has the collection of all of of SA's Amiature Scientist columns. I'm not sure why this type went out of style, but I remember some discussion on this list a long while back about it's shortcomings. Hope this helps, Daryl __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Torsion spring From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 00:27:02 -0700 The one major problem that I would think of is temperature changes. I have been thinking that possibly a 5# mass with a specific gravity of between 1.05 and 1.1 to be suspended by vertical extemsion springs extended 10 to 12 inches might also make a sensor that would also be damped but the idea of temp changes really bother me about any new ideas. It takes the experience of a mechanical engineer to really understand how these things might behave before spending money on these ideas. You might hold temp constant with one of these new fangled PN junction heat transfer jobbies with a pid loop diode temp sensor. I think experimentation takes too much money Id rather eat than try things I am certain others have already tried but are keeping things secret. Good luck if you try this spring idea out and please keep us all posted on your results. Whatever you try use a balanced system so the temp effects will somewhat null out. ----- Original Message ----- From: "tchannel" To: Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2007 08:38 Subject: Torsion spring Hi All, First thing, is it just me or is it quiet, "too quiet"? Today is the 11th day on my calendar since I recorded an earthquake. My average, here, is about 2 per week. I am overdue, so I will be watching closely today and tomorrow. On a different issue: I have been restoring old mantle clock. Recently a 400 day Anniversary clock. It uses a "torsion spring".........I know very little about clocks, but this is an interesting concept. A long thin, flat spring wire, is twisted slightly, and uses little energy. The result is a very long running clock train. Has anyone tried to use this concept for a seismometer? Just thinking, the period might be long. On the clock I think the spring rotates about once every 4 secs in each direction. Could a long spring, something like a band-saw blade, but without teeth, be un wrapped and configured to move a horizontal arm, left and right, with a long period of approx. 20 seconds. Just wondering if this has been tried. "Watch your helicorders" Ted __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Lowdown in earthquakes From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 07:17:12 +0000 Hi all The lowdown in earthquakes continues. I wonder why that is. Regards. --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann http://www.jonfr.com http://www.simnet.is/jonfr500/earthquake/ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Mini Lehman From: "Connie and Jim Lehman" lehmancj@........... Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1990 08:54:50 -0500 PSN Friends--A friend brought to my attention a web site of a novel = modification of a Lehman sensor. If you've never seen the = Mini-Seismometer by Charlie Thompson--the design is good for a few = chuckles. http://charliethompson.50megs.com/minileh.html Have a good day, Jim Lehman=20
PSN Friends--A friend brought to my = attention a web=20 site of a novel modification of a Lehman sensor.  If you've never = seen=20 the Mini-Seismometer by Charlie Thompson--the design is = good for a=20 few chuckles.
    http://charlietho= mpson.50megs.com/minileh.html
 
Have a good day,   Jim=20 Lehman 
Subject: Re: Lowdown in earthquakes From: "tchannel" tchannel@.............. Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 07:15:05 -0600 Hi All, If you are like me, you're watching the computer screen every few hours. Tomorrow is day 14, with no recorded events for my station. It will be 52 days since a M7+ I don't have much experience on this subject, but I started a calendar where I log the events. Each system is different, but this give me a simple way to follow what has happened. The more weeks and months I keep track of the better to see patterns or at least past frequencies. From my station I am getting a average of 3 earthquakes recorded per week, 4's 5's and 6's. The last 14 days, none. We all know it's just a matter of time. I also have noticed after a period of little or no activity, I get events in rapid secession, sometimes 3 per days and from different locations. I have read that one event can trigger another, but surprised regarding the great distances between them. Is there a world wide system for posting "Likelihood's"? These events cause little damage where I live, but in high risk zones, these facts might be of greater consequence than, just conversations. In some areas of the world, I would be sleeping outdoors for the next few nights. Ted ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jón Frímann" To: "PSN-Postlist" Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 1:17 AM Subject: Lowdown in earthquakes Hi all The lowdown in earthquakes continues. I wonder why that is. Regards. -- Jón Frímann http://www.jonfr.com http://www.simnet.is/jonfr500/earthquake/ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Lowdown in earthquakes From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 13:31:45 +0000 Hi All I am having bit problem trying to guess good problal locations of next strong earthquake, that is mag 7 and stronger. I have my own scale, it works like this. Local earthquakes, mag 0.0 to 8.0, but mag 8.0 being the max mag I can get in Iceland. Regional earthquakes, mag 3.5 to 8.0. Same. Teleseismic earthquakes. Mag 5.0 to 9.6. The earthquakes that are at more distace then 1400 km away from me. Due to my current setup I don't record anything less then mag 7.0 word wide, depending on location. But I can tell you that the earthquake lowdown is also ongoing in Iceland, in almost three weeks nothing special has been happening. I've recorded few earthquakes that where less then mag 2.5, but nothing more. If it wheren't for my second station, I would problay not have recored anything at all. Regards.=20 --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann http://www.jonfr.com http://www.simnet.is/jonfr500/earthquake/ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Lowdown in earthquakes From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 10:16:27 EDT In a message dated 2007/05/22, tchannel@.............. writes: > If you are like me, you're watching the computer screen every few > hours. Tomorrow is day 14, with no recorded events for my station. Hi Ted, You should have seen 16-MAY-2007 08:56:18 20.47 100.70 6.1 38.1 SOUTHEAST ASIA It showed up world wide and I received it. Regards, Chris Chapman In a me= ssage dated 2007/05/22, tchannel@.............. writes:

If you are like me, you're watc= hing the computer screen every few
hours.  Tomorrow is day 14, with no recorded events for my station.

Hi Ted,

       You should have seen
       16-MAY-2007 08:56:1= 8 20.47 100.70 6.1 38.1 SOUTHEAST ASIA
                    It showed up world wide and I received=20= it.

       Regards,

       Chris Chapman
 Subject: Re: Lowdown in earthquakes From: "tchannel" tchannel@.............. Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 08:51:02 -0600 Hi Chris, Yes I should have, but I did not. I double checked, and the = background was quiet at that time. I also checked with some other stations in Idaho, and I don't see it on = their helicorders either. Thanks, Ted ----- Original Message -----=20 From: ChrisAtUpw@.......... To: psn-l@................. Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 8:16 AM Subject: Re: Lowdown in earthquakes In a message dated 2007/05/22, tchannel@.............. writes: If you are like me, you're watching the computer screen every few=20 hours. Tomorrow is day 14, with no recorded events for my station.=20 Hi Ted, You should have seen=20 16-MAY-2007 08:56:18 20.47 100.70 6.1 38.1 SOUTHEAST ASIA=20 =20 It showed up world wide and I received it. Regards, Chris Chapman
Hi Chris,  Yes I should have, but = I did=20 not.  I double checked, and the background was quiet at that=20 time.
I also checked with some other stations = in Idaho,=20 and I don't see it on their helicorders either.
 
Thanks, Ted
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 ChrisAtUpw@.......
To: